German short range .308 blue plastic training rounds

[rufrdr]

Do you have access to surplus German .308 short range plastic training rounds in your locale? The rounds have an iron reduced diameter base with a blue plastic body. Sounds like a 9mm round when firing and shoots a plastic bullet at an incredible speed for the first 50 yards but falls off pretty quickly beyond that distance. I bought a bunch of them when I broke my shooting side collarbone in a bicycling accident and couldn't shoot anything with recoil for several months. I've found them to be fairly accurate out to the 50 yd distance. Works best in my 7.62mm Yugo mauser, not so well in the #4 in 7.62. Doesn't want to feed too well in it. The FN carbine feeds them pretty well too in straight pull mode, won't function the action semi automatic of course. I tried them on steel plates at 35 yds and could hear the projectiles striking the plates so they have some punch behind them. An ad that I read on the internet claimed that a shooter put a plastic bullet completely through an empty metal oil drum at close range so nothing to fool around with. They are pretty cheap around here, I bought a 1,000 for about .05 cents each.

[25Pdr]

Morning Rufrdr,
Never heard of this Ammo. Doubt it is available in the UK. The nearest I've ever seen to Ammo like this was the 303 Blank Ammo with a Blue coloured wooden bullet designed to be fired in the Bren Gun which allowed it to fire full auto, you were supposed to fit a special flash hider with an obstruction to break up the bullet when fired - We didn't have the special flash hiders and were just told not to point it at anyone.

303 Bulleted Blanks


308 Plastic Training Ammo


More Info Clicky...

It is manufactured by Deutsche Angestellten Gewerkschaft (DAG), of Germany. Each round consists of blue molded case w/ projectile, stick powder and a primed steel case head finishing it off. It appears that the projectile and case are molded in one operation, the powder dropped in and then capped with the primed base. In the process of firing the projectile is literally shot off the 6 sprues and thin web of plastic connecting it to the blue cartridge case.


Prior reports of these training rounds clocked it in the 3400 fps range. Many shooters have noted intermittent extraction issues and after a thorough look at the components I can see why. The DAG trainers have a smaller diameter rim.

Dag training round Case head diameter; 11.31mm (.445 in)
7.62.51 Case head diameter 11.92 mm (.469 in)

The case head diameter of the training ammo is approximately .61 mm less than a standard 7.62 NATO round. Correspondingly the bolt face of the training bolt is reduced to accept the training round and seemingly prevent a fully blown 7.62 NATO round from getting close to the firing pin. The slight difference in case head diameter may have a small amount to do with extraction issues in rifles with un-modified bolt

[froggy]

Salut Rufrdr,

In France we call them "balles plast". They were used by new recruits in the Mas49/56 in 7.5 to learn shooting - orange plastic "bullet" with a metal base. From memmories we were shooting 50 meters with them.

[R.G.C]

Salut Rufrdr,

In France we call them "balles plast". They were used by new recruits in the Mas49/56 in 7.5 to learn shooting - orange plastic "bullet" with a metal base. From memmories we were shooting 50 meters with them.

Cartouche Modele 1929C de Tir Réduit. The ones I hve seen were all with aluminium cases.

http://www.armeetpassion.com/75%20mas.html

R.G.C

[rufrdr]

Salut Rufrdr,

In France we call them "balles plast". They were used by new recruits in the Mas49/56 in 7.5 to learn shooting - orange plastic "bullet" with a metal base. From memmories we were shooting 50 meters with them.

Great information, thanks! In the U.S. short range military rifle training is handled with the M261 device that replaces the bolt group in an M16/M4 and permits the use of .22lr for indoor shooting. Many years ago 'gallery' ammunition existed for the 03 rifle which was a ball with a minimal powder charge in the case for short range shooting but that wasn't carried on past the '20s or so.

I hope you don't mind the changes I made to my 49/56 for accuracy purposes!

[froggy]

Re-

What a beauty and a lucky dude you are but aiming those grenades down the range will now be difficult
If you are a DIY armour I saw a FM 24/29 mag adapted to fit a MAS49/56 ... hey presto you increase your Mas capacity to 25 rounds ... just an idea...

Anyway a great rifle you have there !!
original caliber ?

[Dangermouse]

We use this in training
http://simunition.com/en

It bloomin hurts and is no fun at all - it also fails to cycle semi auto firearms so IA drills get a good workout and it trains you to check what condition your firearm is in after each shot.

This is the closest that I have seen to what you describe,

DM

[rufrdr]

We use this in training
http://simunition.com/en

It bloomin hurts and is no fun at all - it also fails to cycle semi auto firearms so IA drills get a good workout and it trains you to check what condition your firearm is in after each shot.

This is the closest that I have seen to what you describe,

DM

The cops here are big users of the simulation ammo. Believe it or not, paintball is also used for training. When I was still active duty the military used the MILES laser system for training. Don't know if it is still in use or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_I ... ent_System

[rufrdr]

Re-

What a beauty and a lucky dude you are but aiming those grenades down the range will now be difficult
If you are a DIY armour I saw a FM 24/29 mag adapted to fit a MAS49/56 ... hey presto you increase your Mas capacity to 25 rounds ... just an idea...

Anyway a great rifle you have there !!
original caliber ?

Mine is still in the original chambering of 7.5 MAS. I use necked up 6.5x55 cases which work just fine. For some reason California has a phobia about rifle grenade launchers so removing the range ring and sight not only helped improve accuracy it also got rid of the grenade launcher stigma. Sleeving the flash hider increased the diameter of the tube and also seems to cut down on the turbulance for the bullet and boosted accuracy. I like the 49/56, it is built like an anvil and is a pretty handy length.

[froggy]

Re-
Yep , I heard of those funny Cali-rules. In France we have something similar . If the weapon is held on a "categorie 1" it can be in its original condition but if it is in "cat 5" in theorie the grenade launcher must be dis-able as well as the mean of holding a bayo.

Interresting comments on how the accuracy was improved !
thanks for sharing the info