A bit of a quandry here decisions, decisions!!

[The Gun Pimp]

Diggle charge £135 per year but no range fees. A s*** little 25 yd smallbore range I use charges £25 per year plus £2 per week - I go every week so it works out the same as Diggle, which has excellent facilities and ranges out to 1000 yds.
Cheers
Vince

[Chapuis]

Expanding not allowed on any range I shoot on.

As an ex shooter who has only shot expanding ammo, on the range and in the field (mandatory) why is it not allowed on the ranges you shoot Rob?. Some kind of safety issue?. Been out of the game 6/7 years now, so much has changed.

Regards

Phil*

Expanding ammunition is not permitted on M.O.D. ranges and that includes Bisley - their rules, if you want to use their ranges you have to abide by their rules.

With regard to civilian ranges there is no reason why expanding ammunition cannot be used but the shooter must abide by the law with regard to expanding ammunition and this only allows its use on ranges for zeroing and reasonable practise, and then only if their certificates are conditioned as such. It does not allow it's use for competition shooting. There is no clear definition of what is regarded as reasonable practise. Unfortunately some clubs have gone a bit overboard and don't allow it's use at all on their ranges.

[dazeroo]

I knew someone was going to say that. :lol:

And I think one can fire HP 22lr in one's target rifle...as far as the law is concerned.

And you don't need expanding on your FAC for 30/30 underlever...before someone tells me that an all.

After reading the home office guidance, I still think you would be on a sticky wicket unless the packaging was biased towards target use. Regards the 30/30, flat nose ammo is the only safe choice in a tubular mag, but not expanding per se. You would have no justification to be using a premium brand hollow point etc.

From the actual home office guidance.

"Match hollow point rounds, such as the Sierra Match King, are not prohibited, neither are flat-nosed bullets designed to be used in tubular magazines. This is to prevent magazine explosions
caused by a pointed bullet resting on the primer of the cartridge ahead of it.

The possession of expanding ammunition for target shooting or any competition use is not allowed."

Just be careful you don't fall foul of your FLO

Regards,

Daz.

[Robin128]

Not the full picture on the 2002 H O Guidance notes, Daz...

3.16 Category (xiv) refers to ammunition incorporating a projectile that is designed or adapted to expand in a controlled manner. It is the kind of ammunition used in deerstalking and vermin control because it is more likely than non-expanding ammunition to ensure a quick, clean kill. Semi-jacketed soft point and hollow point are typical forms of expanding ammunition, but care must be taken to distinguish between match target hollow point ammunition, which has a tiny hole at the front for manufacturing purposes, and true hollow point. Match hollow point rounds, such as the Sierra Match King, are not prohibited, neither are flat-nosed bullets designed to be used in tubular magazines. This is to prevent magazine explosions caused by a pointed bullet resting on the primer of the cartridge ahead of it. All bullets will distort on impact, but only those which were designed or adapted to do so in a predictable manner fit this category.

3.31 However, the use of the phrase “in connection with” means that it is acceptable for shooters to use expanding ammunition to zero their rifles with the ammunition they will be using in the field provided it is for one or more of the four activities listed above. Zeroing might also include training and testing, whether on a rifle range or other suitable land. These exemptions apply only to use in Great Britain, not overseas.

3.32 The possession of expanding ammunition for target shooting or any competition use is not allowed. Applicants wishing to possess expanding ammunition for any other purposes (for example, to zero a large calibre rifle for big game hunting abroad) should also be refused (see also paragraph 3.17). There should be no prescribed limits set on the number of rounds of ammunition that can be expended during zeroing, although this will need to be compatible with these functions and consistent with the overall limits on possession and purchase.

For 30/30 round nose jacketed soft points for use in stick mag under-levers one does not require expanding on your FAC. Don't think one can get flat nose, not when I last checked.

HTH

[dazeroo]

3.31 However, the use of the phrase “in connection with” means that it is acceptable for shooters to use expanding ammunition to zero their rifles with the ammunition they will be using in the field provided it is for one or more of the four activities listed above. Zeroing might also include training and testing, whether on a rifle range or other suitable land. These exemptions apply only to use in Great Britain, not overseas.

This refers to sporting shooters zeroing their sporting rifles on an approved range, subject to range rules. In these circumstances the shooter would already have authourity for "Expanding Ammunition".

Later in your own post you quote that target or competion use is not allowed. As regards .30/30, several USA companies make them, I have no interest in sourcing from UK dealers, but surely someone brings them in.

[Robin128]

Para 3.16 is not qualified to sporting uses when it says one can use flat nosed bullets.

It's just one of the vagaries in firearm law that needs tidying up. Whether it will or not is anybody's guess.

Most UK dealer will supply heads and bullets with round nose jacketed or flat nose jacketed for 30/30 without the expanding condition and the Police will not be bothered if used with 30/30 underlever with stick mag...and they will tell you that there is no need for variation for expanding IMHO.

I went thru all of this a few years ago when I had a 30/30 underlever with stick mag.

Look out...incoming ...heads and bullets.

[ovenpaa]

Look out...incoming ...heads and bullets.

What about calling them projectiles?

[Christel]

Oh come on, we all know they are called heads.

...................................incoming!.............................................


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Robin128]

If things don't change they will remain the same.

:lol:

[Chapuis]

Just a couple of points to fan the flames!

Sporting shooters must have the necessary permission on their certificates to use a range - Yes I know daft but that is what certain firearms departments insist on. Common sense would suggest the best and safest place to zero a rifle would generally be an approved range rather than in the field but try telling some that.

The second point - if a dealer was prepared to sell you .308 round nosed bullets for your .30-30 underlever what other than legality would prevent you from using the same bullets in your .308win or 7.62mm. Just goes to show how ridiculous the law is.