Nitro powder storage

[mag41uk]

I think this came up last year. The regs on this appear to be needing the use of storage boxes as per blackpowder. Powder in 1kg tubs. If this is the case how do you store 3.5kg tubs? Anyone been told to implement this storage method?

[Sim G]

It wouldn’t surprise me if there was something now. The HSE started some Bollox about shooters powder being in a wood box that locks or some such nonsense a couple of years ago, I’m sure. I have kitchen cabinets in my garage. They’re wooden and box shaped… Ta daaaahh!

I’ve always wanted a big keg of powder, just because….

[bradaz11]

it's been talked about at BWSS matches, one RFD was arguing that shooters power isn't nitro, it's bp substitues. personally, I think he's wrong.

and looking on HSE website it states.. "Shooters’ powder includes both black powder and smokeless powder."

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l150.pdf
page 100 is the relevant bit for us

Explosives Regulations 2014: Safety provisionsPage 100 of 114
Appendix 7 Storing small quantities of shooters’ powder, water-based explosives, detonators and detonating cord

1 Regulation 27(3)(b), (c) and (d) disapplies separation distance requirements for keeping small quantities of shooters’ powder, water-based explosives and detonating cord.

The following sections describe the conditions that should be met to qualify for the disapplication. These conditions apply at all premises including domestic premises.

Shooters’ powder
2 Shooters’ powder includes both black powder and smokeless powder.3
The powder should be kept in containers with no more than 1 kg of powder per container. The containers should be constructed in such a way that, in the event of a fire they do not provide additional containment that will either increase the explosive force of any deflagration or cause smokeless powder to detonate. Normally plastic/polythene or paper/cloth containers should be used. Metal containers with a screw cap or a push-in lid must not be used.
4 Although shooters’ powders are generally not very sensitive to ignition by electrostatic discharge, homeloaders or others who decant the contents of plastic containers should take care to reduce the risk of static electricity build-up. Advice on precautions may be sought from the manufacturer.
5 The containers of powder should be kept in a box constructed of plywood with a minimum thickness of 18 mm and a maximum thickness of 24 mm.
6 Where the box holds more than one container, each individual container should be separated by a 6 mm wooden partition that is securely fixed to the outer walls of the box. Each compartment should allow 30% additional height between the top of the container and the inside of the lid.
7 There should be a good seal to prevent a flame path between the lid of the box and the interior. An intumescent strip should be fitted around the edges of the lid to give a good seal or alternatively, a stepped lid or internal second lid should be fitted.
8 The box should be constructed so that there is no exposed metal on the inside. Internal nuts should be covered by a glued wooden liner not less than 6 mm.
9 Figure 1 shows a box that would meet the requirements set out in the previous paragraphs.
Health and Safety Executive
Explosives Regulations 2014: Safety provisionsPage 101 of 114
Figure 1 Storage of shooters’ powder. Note intumescent strip on box lid

10 Boxes constructed in line with the findings presented in HSE research report RR9916 can be used for the storage of between 1 and 25 (5 x 5) containers without being type tested. They are expected to provide at least eight minutes of fire protection to a box that is involved in a major conflagration.
11 The box should not be located:
■■ under or near any means of access or escape, for example under stairs;
■■ in the same room as flammable liquids; or
■■ in areas where there are risks of fire.
12 Metal boxes, including ammunition boxes, are not suitable and must not be used. This is because while metal is fire resistant it also transmits heat very well, and because the metal container adds additional containment that significantly increases the explosive power of the powder.
13 Similarly a box constructed from plywood must not be kept in any form of metal box, drawer or cupboard

so from that, it does indeed look like HSE have moved the goalposts and not told anyone

[Dellboy]

i was buying powder but couldnt but 777 or the other substitute without a bp licence ????

[bradaz11]

there is also stated in the guidance, that silly limit of 1kg per container, even though you can buy it in bigger containers from the manufacturer

[Sim G]

When reading what Stuart has posted, I'll not bother with it. My old law professor, yep, I went to Uni, always stated that in legislation, either primary or other, the wording Makes all the difference!. "May" and "Should" are discretionary, "Will" and "Must" are direction.

Take from that what you will.... but mine will stay in the old kitchen cupboards.

[rox]

it does indeed look like HSE have moved the goalposts and not told anyone

What do you mean they haven't told anyone? You've quoted them actually telling everyone!

[The Event]

it does indeed look like HSE have moved the goalposts and not told anyone

What do you mean they haven't told anyone? You've quoted them actually telling everyone!

They probably told everyone by displaying the changes in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the leopard'.

[dromia]

Shades of Douglas Adams.

[bradaz11]

yes very douglas adams, just please no poetry.

it does indeed look like HSE have moved the goalposts and not told anyone

What do you mean they haven't told anyone? You've quoted them actually telling everyone!

they know everyone's name and address that has an explosive certificate / license / permission slip. so why not write to them and say, 'hey, as we know you have permission for explosives from us, we just wanted to let you know we changed something, and we now advise both blackpowder and nitro powder should be kept in a partitioned wooden box, thinking of you in the shower, HSE xxx'