Lots of Beginner Questions...

[HALODIN]

Hello,

I hope it's OK just to rattle them out in one post:

1) What can't you have under a UK FAC? I appreciate you can't have a full auto anything on a normal FAC and since the handgun ban, most are banned, although I've been told Lugers and other wartime pistols are still allowed. Can anyone tell me if there are other exclusions or point me in the direction of official documentation please? Just trying to build up a picture of what I can and can't dream of...

2) From wikipedia, the following calibres are listed as "common." Does the FAC permit me to have any calibred weapon I want? Are any allowed calibres missing?

.20 (5.00mm)
.204 (5.00mm)
.22 (5.56mm)
.24 (6.00mm)
.25 (6.35mm)
.26 (6.50mm)
.27 (6.80mm)
.28 (7.00mm)
.30 (7.62mm)
.303 (7.62mm)
.323 (8.00mm)
.357 (9.00mm)
.40 (10.0mm)
.50 (12.7mm)

3) Do all gun clubs have an armoury where you can store your guns space permitting? It would be preferential if I didn't have to store them at home, but not impossible.

4) In terms of gun safes, how many guns do most people house and what do you do with the key? Is biometric entry the best solution?

5) I like wartime guns, with that in mind are they (semi-auto) easy to find? Is there a good website where I can browse what's on offer?

6) Are there any other `out of the beginners gate` things I should think about?

Hope that isn't too many. If any of these are common questions and when I searched the forum I just missed them, just say.

Cheers,

Craig.

[Christel]

Some things need to be talked about over and over again tongueout

In theory (when we were not a business) we had room for 12 personal rifles, reality and some have scopes is 8-9 at a squeeze.

From what I know it is down to the individual club if it has storage, ask :)

[Christel]

Storage, I know some people have their rifles at their local club, I would find that slightly annoying. I like to have the time to clean and inspect my rifle/scope/equipment after use in my own house in my own time.

[ovenpaa]

Semi Automatic other than .22LR is a Section 5 Firearm in the UK and as such out of bounds to the average Section 1 FAC holder so that is going to be a non starter for you. If you wish to shoot semi/full auto full-bore firearms you need to look to other countries.

[Dougan]

Hello Halodin, and welcome to the forum

Some good questions - I'll try to answer any you havn't already had answered after the footie....

6) Have you joined a club yet? - You'll need to be a full member (so 3 - 6 months probation) before you can apply for your FAC.

[M99]

Pistols - afraid are not that easy (Although I do have one - but that is not for target shooting, but humane dispatch)

Pistols (Excluding above) fall in to two categories:

Section 7(1): Pistols kept in this category may be possessed on a firearm certificate and can be kept at home. They are to be kept only as part of a collection and may not be fired.

To be eligible for 7(1) the pistol must have been made before January 1st 1919 and chambered in a cartridge that is not readily available.

22 rimfire
.25 ACP
.25-20
.32 ACP
.32-20
.32 S&W Long
7.62 Tokarev
.38-40
.380 Auto
9mm Parabellum
.38 S&W
.38 Special
.380 British Service
.44 Special
.44-40
.45 ACP
.45 Colt

Pistols chambered in any of the above cartridges are not eligible for 7(1) status. They may however be entitled to 7(3) status provided that they meet one of the 7(3) criteria described below.

Section 7(3): Pistols in this category must be kept at a designated secure site. They may be fired.

The purpose of this exemption is to allow important firearms to be preserved, studied and researched. Whilst section 7(3) firearms may be fired it is not intended that they be kept for the purposes of competitive target shooting. A useful analogy is to compare a section 7(3) site with an organisation such as the Shuttleworth Collection of aircraft, where important aircraft are kept in working order and occasionally flown. A significant purpose of Shuttleworth is to preserve rare aircraft and to provide a historic resource centre for the study and appreciation of the development of aviation. Similarly a section 7(3) site provides the opportunity to preserve significant firearms and allow the study and appreciation of firearms and their development

The following is an attempt to provide a concise guide to section 7(3) eligibility. Whilst every effort has been made to ensure its accuracy, the Association cannot be held liable for any errors or omissions etc! It is strongly recommended that anyone wishing to proceed with an application for section 7(3) pistols on their firearms certificate should first carefully read the appropriate sections of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 and ‘The Home Office Firearms Law Guidance to The Police’. Both are available on-line as follows:-

Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 (Section 7)
1997 Firearms Amendment Act
The Home Office Firearms Law Guidance to The Police (Chapter 9)
Home Office Guidance to Police on Firearms Law
For a pistol to be eligible for section 7(3) it must meet at least one of the following criteria:

Particular rarity
Aesthetic quality
Technical interest
Historical importance
a) Particular Rarity

Note the requirement for particular rarity. The Home Office use the Gabbett Fairfax Mars as an example of a pistol that would qualify. In order to gauge the significance of this it is worth remembering fewer than 100 were originally produced. It would be reasonable to expect that extremely rare variants of more common guns would qualify, as would pre-production development pieces.

b) Aesthetic Quality

This covers pistols that have been extensively modified to enhance their appearance. Firearms made or modified after 16th October 1996 are not eligible. Expect to have to demonstrate some genuine artistic merit or a significant increase in financial value due to the aesthetic enhancement. There is limited case law on this, Kendrick v Chief Constable West Midlands Constabulary held a modern presentation gun not to be of Aesthetic Quality. Factory produced commemoratives are unlikely to qualify.

c) Technical Interest

This encompasses firearms with some noteworthy technical feature. Examples include but are not limited to guns that demonstrate a technical solution to a particular issue, guns with unique design features not widely copied in other guns, or firearms which were the first in a significant field.

d) Historic Importance

The Home Office offer a number of different criteria that would be grounds for regarding a particular pistol as being of historic interest.

Firearms owned by a famous historic figure or by someone involved in events of historic importance, would be regarded as being qualified for section 7(3) status under this heading. Evidence supporting the provenance would be required.

Guns made before 1919 may be considered of historic importance due to their age and rarity. Guns made after 1945 are unlikely to qualify on age alone.

Anything that would be considered antique for the purposes of section 58(2) of the 1968 Firearms Act can be regarded as of historic importance. Antique firearms that are sold, transferred, purchased, acquired or possessed as a curiosity or ornament fall outside of the scope of the firearms acts i.e. they do not require any authority such as a firearms certificate, shotgun certificate or section 5 authority to possess. If an antique firearm is possessed for any other purpose than as a ‘curiosity or ornament’ then the appropriate authority to possess is required. Consequently if, for example, it was desired to conduct research that involved firing an early cartridge pistol (such as a 12mm pinfire or 5.5mm Velo-Dog revolver), it would be possible to do so under section 7(3) at a designated site.

Guns, which on their own would not be regarded as historically important, may be properly considered historically important if they are acquired to augment an established collection. In such a case it is the whole collection that is considered historically important. The gun would only be considered to be of historical importance whilst it is an integral part of the appropriate collection. In such cases the pistol in question may loose its eligibility for section 7(3) status if the owner sells it (or sells the original collection it was purchased to enhance).

The above is borrowed from tinternet

[dromia]

The dangers of Wikipedia.

0.303" calibre is not 7.62mm but 7.7mm.

It is not a good idea to shoot 0.308" bullets out of a 303 calibre rifle, 303 bullets (0.311") out of a 308 calibre rifle is an even worse idea.

[Dougan]

Looks like you've got most of it covered...

4. If you really get into shooting then there will never be enough space in your first safe...be prepared to buy a bigger second one :P (personally I prefer a key safe)

5. As has been said, you can't have semi-auto larger than .22 - but there are loads of quality military rifles (and black powder pistols) readily available - you could make simple google searches for ww1 guns and ww2 guns etc....also if you have a trawl through the archive on here, there's loads of photos and info on wartime guns...

[HALODIN]

I hope you don't mind I don't reply to each post as there's so many, but I'd like to say thanks to each of you for taking the time to explain everything to me. I needed a kick start. I was certainly under the impression you could have semi-auto > .22, but I can see now that clearly isn't the case. Shame.

Anyway, I went to see John @ OPRC tonight and he spent a long time explaining everything to me, nice bloke. Unfortunately they don't offer storage, but that's OK. I get the picture about gun cases, clearly I need to think big, perhaps really big I officially join next week and start my probation, looking forward to it!

Got to go and work out how I can lay my hands on a straight pull 7.92mm type 1 FG42. :shakeshout:

Thanks again.

Cheers,

Craig.

[Christel]

Halodin,

Gun cases is what you transport your rifle in, either that or a slip/drag bag. Gun cabinet is what you store your rifle in.

just to clarify, as you yourself said, you can certainly have a .22 rimfire semi automatic rifle, you can also have a .22 rimfire semi automatic pistol however the latter need a long barrel. Nothing bigger caliber wise.