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Hi all

Many years ago while mooching on a scrap heap in Detmold (during drawdown) I found what I thought was some sort of armourers tool.

It appears to be a solid steel gauge or dummy cartridge for the old FRG or Batton round gun/1.5" flare pistol.

It has been kicking about for years but the other day I took a closer look and realised it was exactly the same length as a 12 bore cartridge and the hole (chamber if you like) down the middle takes a dummy 12 bore cart perfectly chambered (In so much as you could chamber the entire thing and fire the shottie cartridge).

It does have an ID stamp but that is just a number.

My theories were some sort of armourers test rig (but there have to be easier ways than using a 12 bore cartridge).

Or something that would allow emergency/experimental use of either 12 bore, 12 bore rubber shot, or 12 bore stun gun cartridges.

If it helps, the scrap heap belonged to a tank regt, but I cannot think of anywhere this calibre was used on a tank, it is strictly a flare/riot gun chambering. However most regiments would have toured NI at some stage.

I have compared it with an M79 round and an FGR round and it is almost certainly FRG.

I also thought if it was for a 12g blank, then why make it so long?

We had FRG blanks but they were big blue things the same size as the baton round.

More to the point what would the effect be of discharging a 12g cartridge directly down a 1.5" barrel?

Anyone recognise it? sign92

That is how you started early diesel engines---a blank 12 bore cartridge.
Fred

dromia wrote:

Sorry....incoming but I thought a description might prod someone.

Here ye go.

I know they used to start diesels with the, we also started the Gypsy Majors on the chippies (and the old Skeeter) but they took a magazine or had a 12 bore breech. This is designed to take a 12 bore and fit it in a 1.5" and almost certainly an FRG.

The resemblance to the FGR round is obvious D

FRG case and M79 cart for comparison

Stamp is 78/2529.....anyone got access to EMERS?

What is the writing on the side, does it have any Proof marks? I have a few similar such as a .410 insert for a 12 bore and from memory they are proof marked.

ovenpaa wrote:What is the writing on the side, does it have any Proof marks? I have a few similar such as a .410 insert for a 12 bore and from memory they are proof marked.

No Dave, just 78/2529, I will bring it up next week, I was going to give it to you anyway to see if you could work it out.

To me, the significant thing is that it is an exact fit for the baton round, and I know there were other 12 gauge "less lethal" munitions available.

It may have been part of a CES which if it was American in origin could have been part of it.

We also had the Webley/Schermuly riot gun, the FRG was a bit posher with a wooden stock, the other one looked like a Sten gun with an attitude problem

Could it be an adapter to allow 12g birdscaring cartridges to be fired from a 1.5" flare pistol as held in the runway caravan at military airfields?

IainWR wrote:Could it be an adapter to allow 12g birdscaring cartridges to be fired from a 1.5" flare pistol as held in the runway caravan at military airfields?

Now that Iain, is a good thought. They used to use those things up out way, made a right racket along with the tapes they used to play across the PA system....I think the tapes were a little worn :lol: