The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Right, i'm officially spitting my dummy out of the pram. I have just wasted 4hrs of my own time, resulting in raised blood pressure and its the fault of a common misconception that i experience again and again. That is Accuracy.

OK, so i freely acknowledge that i'm a grumpy git which only seems to be getting worse as i get older but i truly believe that there are many out there who have no idea of what an accurate shooter is. I essentially nipped over to a range after work to coach a couple of guys for their DSC1 shooting test.

"Are you accurate shots?" i asked.
"Oh yes," both replied. They then proceeded to struggle to even achieve the minimum required at only 100yds!
When challenged i got the same old chestnut, 'But i get a groups of less than an inch.' It's essentially the same responce as i got from another forum member here who proudly displayed his grouping shot, complete with coin - used as proof of accuracy.

Please, Please, please acknowledge that firing at a target on a sheet of paper and achieving a small group (usually using a bench, rest and/or bipod) does not equate to being an accurate shot. What you have demonstrated is consistency - consistency in the rifle and in your body position. Something that could equally be achieved by strapping that same rifle down to a rest and resticting it from moving.

Again i'll freely admit that i've benefitted from hundreds, possibly thousands of hours of the best instruction the army could offer but it was drummed into me that being an accurate shooter is pulling the trigger and having the bullet strike exactly where you intend it to, regardless of range and environmental factors. Any other idea or attitude would have immediately resulted in being RTU'd. A basic example would be a range with targets set at unknown ranges and being expected in turn to hit targets nominated by the instructors, first round with a maximum number of seconds available for a 2nd round if necessary.
Essentially pulling the trigger already expecting that round to strike exactly where you intend it to. You've calculated range and compensated for bullet drop, observed wind indicators and compensated, viewed the terrain and calculated accordingly. It should not be a pleasant surprise when you achieve it.

Anyone who's been to Sennybridge will recognise this warm-up exercise. Use the target below and scale it up to the size you require. I suggest A4 size at 100yds. Now it's you're choice which target you shoot for, but you have a grand total of 1 round only. So how confident are you?


Another way to try it is to start with the largest target and work down to what you are capable of. You may stop at any time, gaining that targets score, but you instantly wipe out your score if you attempt a target and fail.

I don't know how many times i've said it - In my opinion, if you don't have a bad tempered Sgt. who is readily prepared to stand all over your back, hound you and generally kick the living daylights out of you get yourself a decent 22lr rifle like an old BSA International and practice in the many postal events and regional competitions. Shoot outside and get off your belly - shoot from sitting, kneeling, short sticks and long sticks.

Good post, we used to shoot similar with a 'money shoot' half sized currency on an A3 sheet, from GBP50 note to a 1p. Obviously you start with the 50 note and work down trying to gain the highest value score. This did give us the comfort of something large to aim at for the first four shots!

The position that fascinates me is sitting and I practice it as much as possible. I tried the obligatory Hathcock stance but have modified to suit my own shape and needs, get it right and it is as stable as shooting prone. It makes me wonder outside of hunters how many people try different shooting positions.

I was going to reply that I was not sure that I completely agree with you, then after reading your post a second and third time I decided that a reply of -
I think the measurement of "accurate shot" is relevant to the discipline in question and may not equate to accurate in another discipline.

For instance, we could get a military sniper attend a F Class day at 1000 yards. We would welcome him, and although no one would ask, it would be assumed that he was an accurate shot, better than the average squaddie.
But when we explain to him that the target that he needs to hit is 5 inches across, he may realise that this is a slightly different game to hitting steel figure 11's at that range - which I will accept is a great skill to have.
Or, it is accepted by my team that I am an accurate shot with the MP5 and Glock, hitting the required areas of the targets from different positions at different distances in timed exposures, but ask me to take a .22 target rifle and compete at the Lord Roberts centre during a match and the other shooters may have a different idea about my abilities!

There may well be shooters out there who can hit everything they aim at, but for me it is all about practise, and should I ever go for the DSC 1, I will practise for it first,

DM

Agreed. The more you practice the luckier you get.

You can be great at whatever discipline you do every week at the same place but move the environment and it can all go to pot when you are outside your comfort zone..

Doing stuff like D/m does makes life easier when in a strange environment - but we are not all that lucky. I can do great pistol stuff on an open / varied range but not so good stood at a bench at 25m for some reason where it feels "different".


Perfect practice makes perfect..or words to that effect. No substitute for it in shooting.

Dangermouse wrote:I was going to reply that I was not sure that I completely agree with you, then after reading your post a second and third time I decided that a reply of -
I think the measurement of "accurate shot" is relevant to the discipline in question and may not equate to accurate in another discipline.

For instance, we could get a military sniper attend a F Class day at 1000 yards. We would welcome him, and although no one would ask, it would be assumed that he was an accurate shot, better than the average squaddie.
But when we explain to him that the target that he needs to hit is 5 inches across, he may realise that this is a slightly different game to hitting steel figure 11's at that range - which I will accept is a great skill to have.

You are right DM, I have shot with police and Army marksmen and foreign sniper teams, when shooting at paper I can very comfortably hold my own, but get out in the field and it would be a very different story. Notable exception was shooting against a DPG rifle chap, he was good.

Scotsgun,

You are a bit liable to get wound up...are you in more pain as you age?

Look,... everyone knows you are a hunter. No benchrest and little notice to consider a shot safe and then take it.

It may be twilight, p*** down, foggy, freezin, and the shot may be up or down hill.

You also have to gauge the range...perhaps without the aid of technology.

So if you really want to get it thru the dyed in the wool paper punchers then you need a shed load of patience, otherwise you may murrrrrder someone.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Dangermouse,

I'm not doubting the fact that you'd prob paste me shooting 'F' class and that i'd do the same to you in more 'practical' style comps........but i still stand by my original statement, an accurate shot is not achieved when someone gains a small group on a piece of paper.

The next time you see someone passing around a target, take it off them and ask them to confirm that the actual point of impact was exactly where they intended.

Robin,

Yeah, i hear you and yes i am a grumpy bugger, but it's more basic than that.

In the army, the basic qualifier was first round hit, centre mass target of ranges out to 800yds (range not stated and estimation as part of the test), but i regularly see folks struggling to achieve 3 rounds within a 4" target at only 100yds!

I honestly believe that regardless of discipline, there are a growing number of shooters out there who are increasingly dependant on technologies, cannot judge distances, have no idea how and why wind effects a bullet in flight and how to calculate even basic bullet drop. They see rifle averts of 'guaranteed' accuracy with 3 close holes or similar pics in magazine reviews and believe that was being an accurate shooter is.

I shoot at paper I am a crap shot I dont care life is to short I love being on the range the banter etc.
If the guy next to me shoots the middle out of the target who cares.
If he can drop a animal in full flight at 200yds good for him.
Nothing to get excited about.

I think it was Jeff Cooper who defined an accurate shot as some one who can hit what they are aiming at. So the best all round shot would be able to do that in all conditions and all practical ranges. The vast majority of us are no doubt accurate shots within our disciplines and as has been said our comfort zones and trigger time tells.

I also think it has to do with when we learn to shoot, when I'm after live quarry it feels instinctive, I am not aware of processing the information but no doubt I am, I never conciously think about my position I just fall into the best one there at the time.

Put me in front of a inanimate target and I feel myself an intellectual plodder thinking through and pondering everything.

Now I've been shooting at live quarry since I could carry a gun and all through my more formative years, however the skill of paper punching came to me later in life so the learning isn't so ingrained.

Also when its a living animal in the sight and its got to be one shot the adrenelin comes in and it feels totally different and the "focus" is there from the time I see the quarry 'till I loose the shot, I don't get the same feeling when shooting at paper and that "focus" only really comes when I lay the foresight on the target, it is also narrower as I don't seem to be as aware of my wider environment as I do when shooting at live.

No science in there just me own personal observations.

Am I an accurate shot?

Sometimes.

So there is an oxymoron for you.