Permanently attached suppressors ?

[breacher]

Why did they specify a Sec 5 RFD to do the work if the barrel on it's own outside of a firearm is only a component?

They also stated he would have to apply for a variation....

The spirit of the advice is quite correct, the conversion can legally occur. The mechanics they've offered is almost a "must say something for the sake of it" and actually baseless.

I agree Sim - maybe they thought the unmodified rifle was not on my ticket and they were telling me to apply for a variation ?

As to why Sec 5 - my best guess is probably they feel that they are more secure ?

[AR15]

You missed the point I was making - I will try one more time...........

You stated that according to the guidence - A firearm includes components. That a component is to be treated as a firearm.

By that logic, each individual controlled component would have to have an overall length exceeding 24"

But that is not the case. The ASSEMBLED firearm has to be over 24" - ergo, the components when unassembled do not need to have a minimum length.

Also, under UK law - legislation is deemed to permit what is not specifically prohibited.

The Firearms Act has a section specifically written into it, to SPECIFICALLY deal with the shortening of SHOTGUN barrels. It has no SPECIFIC mention of shortening rifle barrels.

The firearms act, when it lays down length requirements, it relates to ASSEMBLED firearms.

As to your "Nobody is ever going to get arrested and charged for possession of a receiver under 24'' as an ownership precedent has already been set"

Completely wrong - the reason is - a component part does not have a length requirement ! Because it is not a firearm. It is a controlled part. There is a subtle difference. And a barrel, on its own, is a component part .

Are you deliberately being moronic?
I never stated that: ''A firearm includes components. That a component is to be treated as a firearm''.
I stated that the guidance uses the expression 'firearm' to define both complete guns and components.
Here it is again, read it and let it sink in:

3.26 The expression “firearm” in the 1968 Act means a lethal barreled weapon of any
description, or component part of such weapon, from which any shot, bullet or other
missile can be discharged (see chapter 13 for more details on component parts). 3D
printed weapons are potentially lethal barreled weapons and must be viewed as such in
law. The method of manufacture is not material to this consideration.

Do you actually get that bit, can you understand it at all??? It says the 1968 Act, that's the entire act, not just the bit you imagine it fits in.
What bit of it are you struggling with?

''The Firearms Act has a section specifically written into it, to SPECIFICALLY deal with the shortening of SHOTGUN barrels. It has no SPECIFIC mention of shortening rifle barrels''.

Your off your head, why isn't it mentioned?
A sub 12'' barrel has no other legal place to go than in a Sec5aba gun. So it is always a Sec5aba component. It cannot exist outside of that classification legally.
3.3 Note that the component parts of weapons falling under 5(1)(a), 5(1A)(a) or 5(1)(aba) are
also subject to section 5 controls.
Do you understand this??
c. under section 5 of the 1968 Act, it is an offence for a person to possess, purchase,
acquire, MANUFACTURE, sell, transfer, possess for sale or transfer, or purchase or acquire
for sale or transfer, a COMPONENT part of a PROHIBITED WEAPON without the authority of
the Secretary of State for the Home Department or by Scottish Ministers in Scotland.

Is any of that information going it all???
Can you read the words MANUFACTURE and COMPONENT PART OF A PROHIBITED WEAPON, they are all together in the same sentence. In order to MANUFACTURE something you have to change one thing into another. Its not just a case of it having to have come out of a Sec5 weapon.


Phone up the CPS and see if they wont prosecute you for possession of a converted Sec5aba component.

[breacher]

AR15 - my last reply to you - I will not engage with someone who feels that anybody who disagrees with you is to be insulted.

Then again, I guess maybe you are afraid it will affect sales of your sub raven if anybody can convert their own rifles so maybe there is a reason for the butthurt ?

You know what - since you popped your head up - I had a lot of people messaging me telling me just what they thought of you. I am starting to see what they meant................

[AR15]

et al.

There is no such thing a s5 component per se, there are only prohibited weapons which contain component parts that will be regarded as accordingly. A slight, but very significant difference. You yourself agreed to this exact point with reference to an AR bolt. Whatever that part is fitted to will decree it's classification, even though it will require s1 status immediately due to its very nature. But it does not attract s5 status, purely by existing.

Within the context of the thread, a barrel removed from a s1 firearm is a s1 component. Chop it to 8", it remains a s1 component all the while it is not fitted to a firearm. It's length only becomes an issue if it is fitted back on a firearm when too short. Permanently attach a device to the end prior to fitting and the barrel is still a s1 component and when refitted, as long as it exceeds 12" when installed and the overall length exceeds 24", the firearm remains s1, as do the components.

Fit the barrel to a firearm when too short, the firearm becomes a prohibited weapon and the barrel, as a component of a now prohibited weapon, is itself now a s5 component. Not before.

The sum of its parts, not the individual parts themselves until a whole.

You mentioned earlier full auto trigger groups. What happens if you were to fit a full auto trigger group in a s1 straight pull? Nothing. The trigger unit is not a component part and the straight pull will not operate to the degree that it falls into s5.

You cannot fit a full auto trigger group into an AR15 straight pull or semi auto.

3.3 Note that the component parts of weapons falling under 5(1)(a), 5(1A)(a) or 5(1)(aba) are
also subject to section 5 controls.

c. under section 5 of the 1968 Act, it is an offence for a person to possess, purchase,
acquire, MANUFACTURE, sell, transfer, possess for sale or transfer, or purchase or acquire
for sale or transfer, a COMPONENT part of a PROHIBITED WEAPON without the authority of
the Secretary of State for the Home Department or by Scottish Ministers in Scotland.

[AR15]

AR15 - my last reply to you - I will not engage with someone who feels that anybody who disagrees with you is to be insulted.

Then again, I guess maybe you are afraid it will affect sales of your sub raven if anybody can convert their own rifles so maybe there is a reason for the butthurt ?

You know what - since you popped your head up - I had a lot of people messaging me telling me just what they thought of you. I am starting to see what they meant................

Not the first time you told me loads of people are telling you stuff. Seems to be a recurring thing for you. Same people, same friends, same opinions.
I bet they all shoot CSR with you too.
We don't sell the Sub Raven so there is zero effect to me.
You can disagree with me all you like and I welcome debate, however I draw the line at idiocy which is all you are demonstrating.

[breacher]

Sim G

Just to add a little twist to the discussion - there is a way of taking a 12" barrel, attaching a suppressor and pinning that suppressor in place BEFORE chopping the barrel.

That way - it remains over 12" throughout the whole process.............

[Sim G]

You cannot fit a full auto trigger group into an AR15 straight pull or semi auto.

3.3 Note that the component parts of weapons falling under 5(1)(a), 5(1A)(a) or 5(1)(aba) are
also subject to section 5 controls.

c. under section 5 of the 1968 Act, it is an offence for a person to possess, purchase,
acquire, MANUFACTURE, sell, transfer, possess for sale or transfer, or purchase or acquire
for sale or transfer, a COMPONENT part of a PROHIBITED WEAPON without the authority of
the Secretary of State for the Home Department or by Scottish Ministers in Scotland.

You could in a straight pull. Why anyone would want to, is not the question, the fact is you could, legally. A full auto trigger group would not affect the operation so it would not fall foul of s5. A trigger is not a component part. There is no certification required for such. There are tens of thousands of deactivated machine guns all over the country where the deactivation has been carried out on the component parts, i.e. Pressure bearing, alone, as per R v Clarke, and the trigger mechs remain exactly as they were...

[Sim G]

Sim G

Just to add a little twist to the discussion - there is a way of taking a 12" barrel, attaching a suppressor and pinning that suppressor in place BEFORE chopping the barrel.

That way - it remains over 12" throughout the whole process.............

There may well be, but I reckon it's moot!

[AR15]

You cannot fit a full auto trigger group into an AR15 straight pull or semi auto.

3.3 Note that the component parts of weapons falling under 5(1)(a), 5(1A)(a) or 5(1)(aba) are
also subject to section 5 controls.

c. under section 5 of the 1968 Act, it is an offence for a person to possess, purchase,
acquire, MANUFACTURE, sell, transfer, possess for sale or transfer, or purchase or acquire
for sale or transfer, a COMPONENT part of a PROHIBITED WEAPON without the authority of
the Secretary of State for the Home Department or by Scottish Ministers in Scotland.

You could in a straight pull. Why anyone would want to, is not the question, the fact is you could, legally. A full auto trigger group would not affect the operation so it would not fall foul of s5. A trigger is not a component part. There is no certification required for such. There are tens of thousands of deactivated machine guns all over the country where the deactivation has been carried out on the component parts, i.e. Pressure bearing, alone, as per R v Clarke, and the trigger mechs remain exactly as they were...

Im sorry but you dont know what you are talking about when it comes to a straight pull and what can and cannot be fitted to it. Deactivated guns are an entirely different subject too.
A full auto, select fire trigger group has an auto sear that is required for the trigger to function in a full auto capacity, without the auto sear it simply functions as a single stage trigger. There are no holes or internal space for the auto sear within an AR15 straight pull lower, or an AR15 semi auto lower.
To machine such holes and space would be the manufacture of a Sec5a component.

3.3 Note that the component parts of weapons falling under 5(1)(a), 5(1A)(a) or 5(1)(aba) are
also subject to section 5 controls.

c. under section 5 of the 1968 Act, it is an offence for a person to possess, purchase,
acquire, MANUFACTURE, sell, transfer, possess for sale or transfer, or purchase or acquire
for sale or transfer, a COMPONENT part of a PROHIBITED WEAPON without the authority of
the Secretary of State for the Home Department or by Scottish Ministers in Scotland.

[Sim G]

There is no such thing as a prohibited component unless it has formed part of a prohibited weapon. Once it has formed part of the prohibited weapon, then it is a prohibited component, no before.

Hence in illustration, take a lower, machine it, fit a full auto trigger and attach it to a straight pull upper, that conforms to length demensions, then the firearm falls under s1 and is not prohibited. Likewise, the component part are also s1.