The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

meles meles wrote:

Sandgroper wrote:How about renaming this whole thread "The Badger baits back"?

*chuckles*

:lol:

Yep, thought so. I should've known better! emrolleyes

Now, oomans, back to the task in paw.

Which of the actions under consideration will allow us to shoot the widest range of different calibres ?

Q1. Is there an action that will allow us to use 7.62x51, 7.62x54R and 7.92x57 as a minimum?
Q2. Does having a rimmed cartridge in the mix make things too difficult ?
Q3. If there is an action that allows us to use our minimum selection, what others does it also permit ?

meles meles wrote:Now, oomans, back to the task in paw.

Which of the actions under consideration will allow us to shoot the widest range of different calibres ?

Q1. Is there an action that will allow us to use 7.62x51, 7.62x54R and 7.92x57 as a minimum?
Q2. Does having a rimmed cartridge in the mix make things too difficult ?
Q3. If there is an action that allows us to use our minimum selection, what others does it also permit ?

I repeat:

1°) The 7.62x54 would not feed at all from a modern repeater action

2°) Only a single shot would allow from .223 to .338 bplt faces (with however bolt diameters considerations). There are different feeding lips and ramps for each diameter and lenght.

3°) Front locking would require at least 2 receivers and 2 boltss diameters to achieve same, not even accounting fpr 2°) above.

4°) Barrel swap: no one front locking (except the exotic clampind system) would allow barrel shank sufficiently long to achieve a reliable no-tool fast system. The Savage system not pnly requires tools, but also gages!!!.

Enough said... Wonder if I should not have stayed a lurker?.
R.G.C

No, you shouldn't have continued to lurk: you have a useful brain to be picked through.

1. Why won't the 7.62x54R feed from a modern repeating action ? Is it the presence of the rim, or some other issue? They feed well enough from our Mosin Nagants. That's an old action. Surely technology hasn't regressed ?

2. So, it seems that single shot is the only way forward if we want multiple calibre capabilty?

3. Why is front locking needed? Would a rear locking system achieve our aims ?

4. Explain the concept of barrel shanks in greater detail please...

meles meles wrote:No, you shouldn't have continued to lurk: you have a useful brain to be picked through.

1. Why won't the 7.62x54R feed from a modern repeating action ? Is it the presence of the rim, or some other issue? They feed well enough from our Mosin Nagants. That's an old action. Surely technology hasn't regressed ?

2. So, it seems that single shot is the only way forward if we want multiple calibre capabilty?

3. Why is front locking needed? Would a rear locking system achieve our aims ?

4. Explain the concept of barrel shanks in greater detail please...

OK for this time as questions seems pertinent:

1°) The 3lines (7.62) x54 has a rim 14,5mm dia, just 0,4mm smaller than the .338LM. Its conical shape does not allow to be fed from a straight double column magazine, or this magazine has to be angled to the rear to allow the rims to be introduces with the rim ahead of the preceding one to allow jam-free feeding. Just have a loolk on how your MN feed to be convainced. Moreover, it would need a magnum feeding cut and ramp.

2°)Not ANY single shot..only one who would have sufficient unobstructed bolt face diameter to allow room for an axtractor to override those large caseheads diameters and same time a coned breech to allow trouble-free feeding of the smallest.

3°) ONLY a rear locking action could give you an answer to point 2.

4°) The actual options for barrel change are;

-A) The barrel is clamped by 2 crosscrews on the receiver underside who is split longitucinally to permit the said clamping. No need to say those cuttings weaken the action front up to the point this system, to my knowkedge, is limited to systems locking in the barrel. This may seem attractive at first, but makes barrels dearer and more complicated. Also, the asymmetry of the receiver at front makes the POI rises as the action heats.Particularily at long range, I think..

-B) The Savage system with a counter-nut. Need to be extremely tight and a set of headspace gages for each calibre to adjust. Also, the double threads system, not going into details, is such that barrels sometimes does not line with the action…Many users got rid of the nut and fit normal shouldered barrels. Also, the long threaded shank allow for no reinforce, which is a bad point IMHO.

-C) The standard threaded shank? Need consequent tightening and threads are never entirely self-centering. Swap need tooling including a torque wrench.

-D) The long shank with 2 close tolerance registers and a thread inbetween. Please, allow me to not extend on this for not to be accused of blatant advertising. It has been demonstrated to several forum members and described even still recently.

-E) There us other qystems possible, but not of practical application for our vpurpose.

Back at rest
R.G.C

So, if we understand correctly, we should rule out the ability to fire 7.62x54R from the same magazine / action that we would like to use for 7.62x51, 7.92x57 et cetera ? Or stick to a single shot system. In which case we seem to be narrowing things down to two options:

1. A magazine fed Savage / Barnard action
2. A single shot INCH action

meles meles wrote:So, if we understand correctly, we should rule out the ability to fire 7.62x54R from the same magazine / action that we would like to use for 7.62x51, 7.92x57 et cetera ? Or stick to a single shot system. In which case we seem to be narrowing things down to two options:

1. A magazine fed Savage / Barnard action
2. A single shot INCH action

The Savage target action comes as a single shot. The action is available separately and comes with a substantial recoil lug and the Target Accu-trigger that can be adjusted down to 10oz.

One thing to consider is ease of barrel changing, if you do wish to shoot multiple cartridges you will need a means of swapping over very quickly and ideally at the range. One of the advantages of the CG INCH is the way barrels can be swapped by hand without the need for special tools. Just spin one barrel off and screw the new on with a quick flick to lock it in place, the advantage of the two registers so in effect the thread is only there to stop the barrel falling out, all alignment is by the registers.

That sounds good. It really does seem to be coming down to a two horse race: the INCH and the Savage actions. The INCH's principal benefits seem to be ruggedness and easily changed barrels, though at the expense of being only a single shot mechanism. The Savage has a magazine feed capability and possibly a lower price?

My final thought on the Action, if you are going to shoot McQueens, go for a mag fed action. If there is no need for a magazine really then go for the INCH. With a little practice you'll be able to load a single action quickly especially right bolt left port (if the INCH can be supplied like that)