The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

If you ask your RFD to get you a rifle from the importer he will purchase it at trade cost from said importer and then sell to you at a marked up or retail price so your buying off the RFD not the importer
Simples

Yes that is buying a rifle from your RFD's stock, not a problem.

As the thread title says this is about remote selling where you buy a rifle from somewhere that you can't collect from the seller and need to have it transferred to you via RFDs. Totally different scenario from that which you have stated.

I can't help but feel a better thing for our associations to suggest as good practice would be to send your FAC to the RFD that the seller of the rifle is going to use to send the rifle. the RFD then overseas the seller writing on your FAC, the RFD then posts your FAC back to you, and posts the rifle to your local RFD. you go to your RFD, show them your ticket all filled in, and collect your rifle.

This way your FAC hasn't been in someones hands just because they 'say' they have a rifle to sell, it has only been in an RFD's possesion. This RFD could also check that the guy selling the rifle is a genuine seller and not just wanting to look at your FAC, which will be evident if they don't turn up with a rifle afterall. This RFD is not filling out your FAC so it's not falling foul of the new enforced rules.

Plus RFD's have a better idea of what FAC's should look like, and should have a good idea on how to fill it in, helping the seller to ensure they don't muck anything up, and aren't sending a rifle off to someone who shouldn't be getting it in the first place

By the time you send the FAC you will also no doubt have sent money a bit late to be checking out the validity of the seller.

At the end of the day it is incumbent upon all FAC holders to comply with the condition therein and if they not fit to do so then that must surely question their suitability to hold an FAC if they cannot manage to comply.

Their is nothing stopping either party seeking advice and assistance with the process from RFDs, firearms certification or who ever.

When buying a gun remotely I would want to see at least a current copy of the sellers FAC showing that they had the rifle and only be sending my FAC to the address on the FAC.

The only real difference to the process is the seller filling in the buyers FAC, the sending RFD still has to check that the person giving the rifle has authority to do so it is still on their FAC and it is still entered on their register as a transfer, the receiving RFD also enters the gun and its disposal on their register as a transfer and checks that the person presenting the FAC is the right person and the entry on their FAC marries with the rifle to be transferred, they just don't enter anything on the FAC as the gun has been already entered by the seller.

dromia wrote:As an RFD I do not accept deposits on firearms unless they have a slot for it on their FAC. To accept the deposit could be seen as giving you title to a firearm you have no right at that time to possess if you have no slot for it on your ticket, that is regardless of the distance or whether it would need to be sent or collected.

You just could be correct in refusing to accept a deposit .

However , take it one step further ..............

Lets say I have an FAC with the correct slot on it for one of your classic rifles . I and a nubile young lady travel to your establishment , I select the rifle and the nubile young lady pays for it with her credit card .

It would appear to me that as she has paid for it , she has title to a firearm that she has no right to possess .

I feel that the GTA , BASC ect should have looked for some form of workaround that complied with the law , but kept things as they were in relation to distance sales/transfers .

Another good point MistAgain, I seldom remember my wallet and it is usually the Viking who pays for new rifles. As an RFD I would be very reluctant to bring in an expensive item for a new and unknown customer without a sizeable deposit if they were still awaiting the slot on their FAC which in theory is also illegal.

The exact same thing happened to me at a non shooting related wholesalers the other week, the card is my wife's name on her business account we came to the counter to pay and the wife didn't have any cash so I put my hand in my pocket took out some notes and handed them over, the counter girl said she couldn't accept it as it was my wife's account and she had to pay, we went out of sight of the counter I gave my wife the notes and she came back and paid for the stuff. I suspect that was more a jobs worth than any legal requirement that would breech firearms law.

Anyway the above situation would not happen with me as I do not and will not accept plastic. However the point is how far do you take this and it is another poorly thought through thing by the powers that be that we and our customers have to struggle with. In any event I just seek clarification from firearms certification, they are probably just as wise as me but it is their implementation so they can make any calls.

bradaz11 wrote:I can't help but feel a better thing for our associations to suggest as good practice would be to send your FAC to the RFD that the seller of the rifle is going to use to send the rifle. the RFD then overseas the seller writing on your FAC, the RFD then posts your FAC back to you, and posts the rifle to your local RFD. you go to your RFD, show them your ticket all filled in, and collect your rifle.

That's the only way I'd feel comfortable buying remotely from a private seller. Fortunately I like my guns new and shiny so I won't have to roll that particular die.

So turning this on it's head what about if I want an RFD to sell a gun on my behalf?

Does this mean that I then can't apply for a one on one off as legally speaking I am still the owner and have to retain ownership until it's sold and then I fill in the purchasers FAC? That could take months and until then I have a rifle I can't shoot and can't buy another till it's sold.

Also if I buy and have a firearm transferred to an RFD, the remote seller fills in my FAC posts it back. My local FEO decides to pay a visit and sees on my certificate said rifle but in the meantime it's still in transit. He asks so where is this rifle? I reply it's in the post...

A great opportunity for the more over-zealous to become awkward, just another example of poorly thought out legislation or cynically thinking it's a genius piece of inconvenience designed to catch out FAC/RFD's.

spikedueller wrote:So turning this on it's head what about if I want an RFD to sell a gun on my behalf?

Does this mean that I then can't apply for a one on one off as legally speaking I am still the owner and have to retain ownership until it's sold and then I fill in the purchasers FAC? That could take months and until then I have a rifle I can't shoot and can't buy another till it's sold.

The gun is still in your ownership until a deal is agreed on and completed. The RFD has the authority to have the gun in their premises, it would be no different than it being there for a repair/upgrade etc. You've never been able to apply for a 1 for 1 until the original gun has been sold and is no longer in your ownership, whether its in your cabinet or at the dealers. This situation hasn't really changed for this side of things IMO, assuming that the buyer is purchasing the rifle from the same RFD.