Page 6 of 7
Re: What would a UK national shooting body look like.
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:55 am
by Sandgroper
kennyc wrote:Gaz wrote:An FAC/SGC holders' association would be a rather good idea methinx. Neatly sidesteps all the infighting and politicking that sank BSSC and whatever the other one was called, while uniting everyone on common ground.
BestDrugDoc wrote:Cost for members needs to be really low or non existant preferably.
Therein lies the problem - to do anything except send strongly-worded emails, you need money. And there ain't a lot of that floating around the shooting world.
you say that, but every shooter spends money on transport, guns ammo etc, to read the various forums you would be forgiven for thinking that the only optics to buy are £1K+ and that reloading requires £5-600 just to start! so it shouldn't be too much to expect people to pay something for representation ? of course BASC actually occupy that niche at the moment, so maybe the effort should go into persuading them to be more proactive in their lobbying ? or are we just trying to re-invent the wheel?
Yes there is a certain element of re-inventing the wheel to this process, but the OP did start with,
"Just supposing we were constructing a national body for all shooters and gun owners what would it look like?"
Is it a hypothetical exercise in creating an 'ideal' organisation, a sounding boarding in the hope one of our organisations see the light and run with it or both? Or is it the start of something new? Only time, drive and vision will tell - with of course, money!
BASC does tick a lot of the boxes, especially with size, national remit and lobbying. However, it doesn't look as attractive to someone who doesn't stalk, wildfowl or participate in game shooting. It also has a history, (from what others have posted) which like the NRA, turns shooters off BASC.
Where do we take this thread now? I don't know, but the first thing is to decide if it a hypothetical exercise or the start of something new.
Re: What would a UK national shooting body look like.
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:04 pm
by IainWR
Problem - text below
Re: What would a UK national shooting body look like.
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:09 pm
by IainWR
IainWR wrote:Hi all
The concept is great.
Some thoughts:
I was at the inaguaral discussion that led to the Sportsman's Association. SA was designed to be a lobbying organisation for everybody involved in shooting sports, following the negative press following Dunblane. The aim was 1 million members in a month. I believe we got about 20 000 (including me, my parents, several of my parents friends, my father-in-law, several of his mates from his rifle club ... don't accuse me of not trying). That was shooters signing up in response to the greatest threat to the sport in 50 years. The Sportsman's Association now occupies a niche position in the structure (if there is a structure) of UK shooting organisations.
The NRA does a lot of what you ask, but it has very little expertise outside of target shooting (I'm learning about deer / boar / rabbit / fox etc but the only creatures I've ever deliberately killed with firearms were people (and a controlling part in despatching a beached whale, mentioned only to be squeaky clean if questioned)). BASC also does a lot, and is a lot bigger, but knows very little about target shooting. At the working level (me, Mike Eveleigh and others), the two organisations have a good relationship. At the top level, I believe they also have a good relationship, but it tends to be visible only in response to a crisis, when BASC (being several times bigger and having full-time staff in areas NRA cannot afford to carry) tends to lead.
Umbrella organisations have been tried, and some survive and do useful work. British Shooting leads on several issues around competitive sport. BSSC quietly represents all the major organisations to Government on legal stuff and other aspects. The structure of British politics and society is such that it is not likely to be possible to build an organisation like the NRA of America.
If you want a new organisation, I wish you well. Either you need to appeal to all the firearms users - it would be wonderful to achieve what the Sportsman's Association did not and sign up every firearms user in the UK - or you need to appeal to the controllers of every major organisation, which may be difficult given that they all talk already at various levels.
Let me know where I send my subscription.
Iain
Re: What would a UK national shooting body look like.
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:38 am
by Sandgroper
Iain,
From what I understand you are saying (very good post BTW
) is that between the NRA and BASC we are almost there.
I think the problem is, many (some?) shooters feel disenfranchised by the current set up. How is that feeling to be countered, for me, communication is key. If regional reps, from any organisation, made visits to clubs to meet and greet and to just chat and put their organisations point of view across - it would be a start. At least then people could put names to faces and the message would get out - that we, as an organisation, are interested in you as shooters.
As a BASC member, if a rep from the NRA, SA or any other organisation turned up at a shoot. I would be interested in hearing what they had to say. The same if a BASC rep turned up. I know from my club's location that we might only see someone once or twice a year, but it's better than nothing. Maybe this is what is supposed to happen, but I haven't seen any evidence of it.
The other problem is shooter apathy, as you highlighted in the example of the SA. How is that to be overcome? Maybe that is a sign of dissatisfaction and disenfranchisement with the current system, maybe it's something else but I believe effective communication is part of the solution.
Another thing we have to consider, as has been raised before, would another organisation have anything solid to contribute or would it just be muddying the waters?
Re: What would a UK national shooting body look like.
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:28 pm
by BestDrugDoc
What we havent got is an organisation that could represent a large amount of ordinary FAC/SGC holders that could instantly canvas opinion on shooting matters via a mass email and the web forum, then be able to communicate that to whoever needs to hear , with a clear mandate.
And conversly, it could instantly inform people of issues etc as they arise.
Or do we already have it and I have missed it?
Or could we have it if current organisations decided to do it?
And what is stopping them!
Re: What would a UK national shooting body look like.
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:39 pm
by Sandgroper
BestDrugDoc wrote:What we havent got is an organisation that could represent a large amount of ordinary FAC/SGC holders that could instantly canvas opinion on shooting matters via a mass email and the web forum, then be able to communicate that to whoever needs to hear , with a clear mandate.
And conversly, it could instantly inform people of issues etc as they arise.
Or do we already have it and I have missed it?
Or could we have it if current organisations decided to do it?
And what is stopping them!
In a sense we have it, but not as a formal organisation - internet forums. Look back on the number of forums that went ballistic over the A-Max question, including this one.
Perhaps the current organisations need to utilise the internet more to interact and canvass their members?
Re: What would a UK national shooting body look like.
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:46 pm
by dromia
For unified action we need most, including the organisations, to agree on the issue(s).
Then we need agreement on what we need to do to address the issues, who and how.
Then we need to do it it and keep checking that what is being done is giving us what we need.
Re: What would a UK national shooting body look like.
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:20 pm
by Sandgroper
dromia wrote:For unified action we need most, including the organisations, to agree on the issue(s).
Then we need agreement on what we need to do to address the issues, who and how.
Then we need to do it it and keep checking that what is being done is giving us what we need.
Mentioned all of that (and more
) in the BASC membership survey that arrived in my inbox today. Any other BASC members received it?
Re: What would a UK national shooting body look like.
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:01 pm
by M99
Sandgroper wrote:dromia wrote:For unified action we need most, including the organisations, to agree on the issue(s).
Then we need agreement on what we need to do to address the issues, who and how.
Then we need to do it it and keep checking that what is being done is giving us what we need.
Mentioned all of that (and more
) in the BASC membership survey that arrived in my inbox today. Any other BASC members received it?
Nope?
My new Magazine only arrived on Saturday - nothing with that either.
Mike
Re: What would a UK national shooting body look like.
Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:02 pm
by BestDrugDoc
Not me either.