The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

All chamber flags do is to allow an RCO to 'clear' a rifle quickly from a distance - without inspecting it properly. Why would you not inspect it properly?
A live round can lie in the action with the breech flag inserted - is this rifle clear and safe? From 10 feet away it may appear so.
I much prefer the benchrest 'bolts out' rule and a proper visual 'clear' from the RCO looking down the bore.

Depends on the breech flag surely. For Practical we insist on one that fully inserts into the chamber so its impossible for a round to be in there. (We also remove/empty magazines, and dry fire the action off after every stage to treble check). Over the years theres become 2/3 flag types for each discipline which are easily recognisable. Of course no system is perfect and fatigue and being in a hurry to push on with the day can cause failures of the system....

It's incredible how widely misunderstood breech flags are. They are an Open Breech Indicator. Nothing more. They say nothing about whether a firearm has been cleared, or whether or not it contains a round. The number of people who think they have 'cleared' a rifle by inserting a flag is staggering and frightening; the same for anyone who thinks a rifle 'is clear' because it contains a flag. It might have helped if they were known from the start as an OBI (Open Breech Indicator) as they are in other countries.

At Bisley a rifle has to be cleared before the flags/blocks are inserted.

Bisley Bible Rule 122.

rox wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:45 am
It's incredible how widely misunderstood breech flags are. They are an Open Breech Indicator. Nothing more. They say nothing about whether a firearm has been cleared, or whether or not it contains a round. The number of people who think they have 'cleared' a rifle by inserting a flag is staggering and frightening; the same for anyone who thinks a rifle 'is clear' because it contains a flag. It might have helped if they were known from the start as an OBI (Open Breech Indicator) as they are in other countries.

Exactly. I am aware of five occasions where a rifle with a live round in the action and a breech flag inserted has been declared clear. On four of those the event is known to have happened because a shot was subsequently fired. NRA Safety Rule para 122c, if followed correctly, prevents this. ROs, when you remove the flag for the confirmatory check, remember a round is more likely to be be in the action body rather than the breech.

This is a std demonstration & presentation at every new SSC /shooter course. If you use the NRA course as ur supposed to do..... (or have ur own course approved by NRA?) then it should be familiar? along with checking the face of the bolt. I demo this to students using a snap cap. There are 2 reasons to look for daylight up the barrel 1. nothing lurking in there that could go bang if it were closed & 2. nothing obstructing the barrel that would cause it to go bang if fired.

I have taught my Uni club to use strimmer line, its idiot (& student) proof & consistent with NSRA air rifles approach & is dirt cheap to implement.

In the extraordinarily tenuous reality of that safety flag situation happening, that round couldn't be chambered

Blackstuff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:52 pm In the extraordinarily tenuous reality of that safety flag situation happening, that round couldn't be chambered

.......... or the more plausible reality that some keep their bolt with their gun all the time, so might, without further checking, or by being distracted - withdraw the flag, close the bolt either with trigger pulled, or snap off the action to transport & store it. Especially if only in the car to the armoury. That has happened.

A round could not be chambered with the flag in place, but if that rifle was called clear because a flag was visible and the shooter was going to put the rifle in a slip, the shooter would likely remove the flag and move the bolt forward chambering the round. At best there would be a rifle in a slip with a chambered round and at worst a round going off in whatever direction the rifle was pointed if the shooter eased springs. At our range, a flag in a rifle on the firing point is more of an indicator that you have finished shooting. The rifle is inspected to check there is nothing in the chamber and magazine before being moved from the firing point.
Regards
Peter.

Blackstuff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:52 pm In the extraordinarily tenuous reality of that safety flag situation happening, that round couldn't be chambered

The situation has occurred five times that I know of, and in four of those the round was subsequently chambered and fired.