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Re: Lead Ban Update
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:25 pm
by 38Super
If they allow lead for target shooting will we still get away with slug for Target Shotgun or even practical if people can afford it?
Re: Lead Ban Update
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:02 pm
by The Event
38Super wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:25 pm
If they allow lead for target shooting will we still get away with slug for Target Shotgun or even practical if people can afford it?
Slug should be allowed the same as rifle ammunition will be as it isn't "shot".
Re: Lead Ban Update
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:48 pm
by Mauserbill
Hello
So they want to ban lead as it is an environmental hazard, but they allow water companies to dump raw sewage into the rivers and streams that finds its way to the coastal resorts and ends up as a sort of brown sludge as recently reported in the media, God only knows what happens to the swimmers and the fish, crab, shrimp, prawn and lobsters that feed on this S**t I certainly don`t eat seafood any more. This is truly a crazy country that we live in
Re: Lead Ban Update
Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:28 am
by Blackstuff
Looking out of my window I see house after house with lead flashing that feeds into drainage systems which discharge directly into waterways, and a cat prancing along a fence that is a literal bird killing machine, and can't help but think banning me from shooting a shotgun in a quarry in the arse end of nowhere is more the motive for this than saving birds lives or preventing the ingestion of lead
I notice that despite the 104 pages of the lead report there are no facts or figures about the
level of harm being caused by lead. YEs we all know its toxic, to an extent. But are there 10 or 10,000,000 birds dying from ingesting lead pellets? How many people are admitted to hospital with lead poisoning as a result from contact with shooting related sources? A quick search on the HSEs own website shows that it is the industrial use/manufacture of lead which are the leading causes of lead poisoning, unsurprisingly, and the following SHOCKING stats read;
In 2021/22
- 4,186 (94%) of the workers under surveillance were male and 252 (6%) female.
- One young male (under 18 years old) was under medical surveillance.
- The smelting, refining, alloying and casting sector accounted for the highest number of males under medical surveillance during the three-year period 2019/20-2021/22.
- Working with metallic lead and lead containing alloys accounted for the highest number of females under medical surveillance during the three-year period 2019/20-2021/22.
- 38 male workers had a blood-lead level at or above 50µg/100ml recorded.
- Five female workers had a blood-lead at or above 25µg/100ml level recorded.
- 22 lead workers were suspended from work, 1 of which was female
So we're apparently talking about destroying sports, closing businesses and making people unemployed because 22 people had to go on the sick.
Re: Lead Ban Update
Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 1:41 pm
by Dark Skies
Blackstuff wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:28 am
Looking out of my window I see house after house with lead flashing that feeds into drainage systems which discharge directly into waterways, and a cat prancing along a fence that is a literal bird killing machine, and can't help but think banning me from shooting a shotgun in a quarry in the arse end of nowhere is more the motive for this than saving birds lives or preventing the ingestion of lead
I notice that despite the 104 pages of the lead report there are no facts or figures about the
level of harm being caused by lead. YEs we all know its toxic, to an extent. But are there 10 or 10,000,000 birds dying from ingesting lead pellets? How many people are admitted to hospital with lead poisoning as a result from contact with shooting related sources? A quick search on the HSEs own website shows that it is the industrial use/manufacture of lead which are the leading causes of lead poisoning, unsurprisingly, and the following SHOCKING stats read;
In 2021/22
- 4,186 (94%) of the workers under surveillance were male and 252 (6%) female.
- One young male (under 18 years old) was under medical surveillance.
- The smelting, refining, alloying and casting sector accounted for the highest number of males under medical surveillance during the three-year period 2019/20-2021/22.
- Working with metallic lead and lead containing alloys accounted for the highest number of females under medical surveillance during the three-year period 2019/20-2021/22.
- 38 male workers had a blood-lead level at or above 50µg/100ml recorded.
- Five female workers had a blood-lead at or above 25µg/100ml level recorded.
- 22 lead workers were suspended from work, 1 of which was female
So we're apparently talking about destroying sports, closing businesses and making people unemployed because 22 people had to go on the sick.
Well said! You should forward your comment to the HSE. Nothing will come of it, of course, because the toxicity of lead / risk to health ISN'T the real reason for this "initiative". After all, we're the nation whose government is totally fine with foreign private companies charging us to dump excrement in our rivers and along our coastline, then double down on that by charging us to fix their dodgy pipelines and facilities.
Still, I suppose we ought to play the game until the final hand.
Re: Lead Ban Update
Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:35 pm
by meles meles
Has anyone else found that, when trying to respond as an
individual to the HSE survey, you are directed to the '
organsiation' response page and cannot proceed further? We've contacted the HSE over this but received no response...
Re: Lead Ban Update
Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2023 6:28 am
by Pippin89
Blackstuff wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:28 am
I notice that despite the 104 pages of the lead report there are no facts or figures about the
level of harm being caused by lead. YEs we all know its toxic, to an extent.
In fact quite the opposite. There was a story of a guy who ran an indoor shooting range for multiple decades that had the extraction running the wrong way. I.e. blowing lead up range towards the shooters instead of down range away from him. So long term exposure in the worst of conditions. He went into hospital for something else and noticed in his blood tests he had "higher than normal" levels of blood in his system. Not dangerous, not causing him a problem, just "higher than normal".
The LD50 (the dose which is lethal to 50% of the population) of Lead is 4.6g per kg of body weight. So for a 80kg person you would need 368g of Lead to have a 50% chance of it being lethal.
For a 1kg bird, they would need the equivalent of 44 number 6 pellets to have a 50% chance of being lethal. In other words, the chances of a bird, or human, dying from lead toxicity from shooting on a range or in the wild, is pretty damn remote!
Re: Lead Ban Update
Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:07 am
by Mattnall
Pippin89 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 6:28 am
He went into hospital for something else and noticed in his blood tests he had "higher than normal" levels of blood in his system.
Damn that extra blood.
Re: Lead Ban Update
Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:50 pm
by meles meles
The HSE has been in touch and claim their survey is now fixed.
We isn't sure that's the best phraseology they could have used...
Re: Lead Ban Update
Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:32 pm
by Graham M
Oh I don't know. Methinks "Fixed" is exactly the correct phraseology..............