The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Westminster, banking, the city of London, to name just three.

Dougan wrote:

wildrover77 wrote: Whay are badgers seen as a special case and bovines are not?

Well you could argue that badgers are a natural species that's been here as long as we have; and that cattle are bred by use as an unnatural resource.....

I won't make that argument though, as I'm very fond of beef - What I object to it the fact that we (government/policy makers/voters) aren't willing to spend the money to really solve the problem; as cures and vaccines aren't impossible...just costly....

...we are however willing to throw billions of pounds at cosmetics, clothes, mobile phones etc. every year - hell, the money we will spend just this coming christmas would fund an awful lot medical research, and not just for curing bovine TB!

And why do you think strains are becoming resistant?....could it be that pharmaceutical companies encourage doctors and vets to hand them out like they are bloody smarties!

I am glad you’re not trying to make the natural species argument; I have had enough of environmentalist and animal lovers taking about things being unnatural. I don’t see any of them offering to walk of the white cliffs of Dover creating space for the UK to return to its natural habitat

I would still point out thought that no one ever suggests learning to live in harmony with cock roaches or rats and vaccinating them against all the horrible disease they spread.

Bacteria are becoming resistant as that is there purpose and method of survival this is encouraged by over use of antibiotics. However you will find this routine use has been withdrawn from nearly all forms of livestock production as have lots of specific antibiotics been withdrawn completely.

The resistance of TB bacteria specifically is actually developing in third world countires not through over use of drugs but through incorrect use. This resistance then finds itself through immigration in the poor immigrant areas of the western world.

Indeed: not paragons of virtue either. Maybe the bankers will apply to have complaining customers who have been mis-sold products culled - it would save them lots of money...

meles meles wrote:The clue is in the name: BOVINE tuberculosis. It's endemic in cattle, who then pass it on to badgers. It's present in cattle in the main because of poor animal management. Herds of poorly managed cattle can pass the disease to badgers who then pass it to other cattle, which may have been better managed. Badgers are a vector, not the cause of the problem. Studies have shown that bovine TB is much reduced in herds that are reared in conditions close to those approved by the organic farming community - and the badgers locally are healthier too ! Also, can you think of many other industries where poor working practices are compensated by the taxpayer ?

I'm with the stripey one, intensive farming, poor husbandry, over population all contribute.

I don't believe that culling will make a ha'porth of difference.

meles meles wrote:The clue is in the name: BOVINE tuberculosis. It's endemic in cattle, who then pass it on to badgers. It's present in cattle in the main because of poor animal management. Herds of poorly managed cattle can pass the disease to badgers who then pass it to other cattle, which may have been better managed. Badgers are a vector, not the cause of the problem. Studies have shown that bovine TB is much reduced in herds that are reared in conditions close to those approved by the organic farming community - and the badgers locally are healthier too ! Also, can you think of many other industries where poor working practices are compensated by the taxpayer ?

TB is TB it is no differnt in Badger cattle of humans. It is not accurate to blame cattle for passing it onto badgers it is like me arguing that the badgers pass it to cattle, it is a two way street.

TB is becoming endemic in cattle, badgers, deer and other species whch we can all agree is amajor threat to human health.

I have worked on both orgainc farms and conventioanl and have a very open mind. Hence I can pass judgement based on knowledge 'Organic' is just a market label as is Hallal, Kosher and Biodynamic it has alot to offer conventional agriculture, in the form of basic techniques that were lsot, but is is not a nirvania of a production method.

John25 wrote:

meles meles wrote:The clue is in the name: BOVINE tuberculosis. It's endemic in cattle, who then pass it on to badgers. It's present in cattle in the main because of poor animal management. Herds of poorly managed cattle can pass the disease to badgers who then pass it to other cattle, which may have been better managed. Badgers are a vector, not the cause of the problem. Studies have shown that bovine TB is much reduced in herds that are reared in conditions close to those approved by the organic farming community - and the badgers locally are healthier too ! Also, can you think of many other industries where poor working practices are compensated by the taxpayer ?

I'm with the stripey one, intensive farming, poor husbandry, over population all contribute.

I don't believe that culling will make a ha'porth of difference.

Culling has been proven to make a difference. Theory and practice do not always much up. In NZ they had a major TB issue in the livestock industry the vector in their case was the Possum. With strict cattle movement controls and strict culling to stop the over population of possums thay have got it under control.

wildrover77 wrote:
TB is TB it is no differnt in Badger cattle of humans.

That's most definitely NOT the case. Analysis of the various strains of TB indicate that the variant we consider to be modern bovine TB originated around 3000 years ago and was a variant strain passed from homo sapiens as they began to domesticate cattle. This slowly mutated to become a bovine form of TB and eventually further mutated to a variant which could infect badgers. In short, you bald monkeys are to blame in more ways than one...

meles meles wrote:

wildrover77 wrote:
TB is TB it is no differnt in Badger cattle of humans.

That's most definitely NOT the case. Analysis of the various strains of TB indicate that the variant we consider to be modern bovine TB originated around 3000 years ago and was a variant strain passed from homo sapiens as they began to domesticate cattle. This slowly mutated to become a bovine form of TB and eventually further mutated to a variant which could infect badgers. In short, you bald monkeys are to blame in more ways than one...

Yes were are terrible people, we rape pillage and destroy the world, but you will understand when I am at the back of the line when the human race comes to its senses and does the world a favour by drowning our selves like lemmings!!!

Aye a few species of people c(sh) ould be culled in the name of diseasde prevention.........and eradication... Man has done more damage to the planet than any other creature....

wildrover77 wrote:Yes were are terrible people, we rape pillage and destroy the world, but you will understand when I am at the back of the line when the human race comes to its senses and does the world a favour by drowning our selves like lemmings!!!

The world will still be here after the sun has burnt out...just a little colder - There has been 4 or 5 major planetary extinctions since the world began; and some are saying that humans could cause the next one (including our own extinction).....the world will carry on long after we are gone...