Mrs Spelman has got the wrong end of the stick

[Steve]

When they have shot all the badgers and the cows are still getting sick, then what will they do?
This programme involves shooting healthy badgers as well. Typical humans eh.

DEFRA dont want to eradicate all badgers-just a percentage to lower their numbers.Reduce the numbers and you reduce the amount of TB in circulation.Badgers are certainly not in danger of becoming extinct,but like everything in the countryside they need managing and especially so when they carry a disease which passes onto cattle.

[Scotsgun]

IMO this is utter lunacy. When they have shot all the badgers and the cows are still getting sick, then what will they do?
This programme involves shooting healthy badgers as well. Typical humans eh.

Seriously Christel, you have this issue all wrong.

Firstly - Badgers do carry TB, fact! There have been various studies that have proven that it is widespread over the whole population.

2nd - You claim that 'healthy' badgers will be culled too. The fact is that badgers can carry the TB and continue to thrive. Added to this is the completely illogical and draconian rules that have resulted in a population boom and high concentration of badgers on land. So where a farmer has badgers on his land, he has to contend with a high degree of infection if TB occurs.
Have you ever seen a farmer's life's work wiped out when a herd that he has been breeding and developing over decades is wiped out - especially one who was completely powerless to prevent it by stupid legislation? I have and i can tell you for a fact that the losses are much higher than you think. The govt will only re-emburse at a standard flat rate if the farmer can prove that his cattle contracted the TB from badgers on his land and that he has went through a whole lod of stupid hurdles.
Now consider that farmer who has developed his herd over decades, perhaps generations and will undoubtedly have preserved his prime bulls and heffers only for them to be wasted when he was completely unable to do anything to prevent it. Do you really think his life's work is worth tha basic flat rate that the govt will offer?

3rd - The laws protecting Badgers and the might brought to bare should someone be stupid enough to tamper with them is considerable. No doubt the typical traveller C.U.N.T.S. with spades and terriers in tow will get a slap on the wrist but a farmer who so much as contemplates messing with a badger or the set can expect to face a whole load of charges and possibly imprisonment.

4th - Poor wee badgers. Yet another animal that has been 'disney-fied.' The fact is that that poor wee defencless animal is actually a viscious wee b******. They create hell with ground nesting birds populations, create considerable damage to groundworks including road embankments and farmers fields and can be a real headache for gamekeepers. I regularly stalk deer on an RSPB sanctuarty on which the badger is considered a major threat to the continuation of many endangered bird species. The badger boom means that the eggs get hammered every year, the badgers just keep increasing, resulting in the pressure on the bird species getting worse annually.

Should the licenses become available, i will no doubt be asked by many of the farmers i know to carry out the culls. Would you like me to keep you a few of the pelts? I reserve my grey squirrel pelts for a in Dumbarton.

Moderator...Knock it OFF!

[Christel]

Scotsgun,

I have not said or implied any of the things you are arguing against.

Let's stick to the facts shall we.

Badgers do carry TB. They do not have any natural predators and they are protected. Ergo they have increased in numbers and they are affecting other species in this country. Fact!

In my opinion the proposed approach is wrong, I do not think it should be the farmers getting a license to shoot the badgers. If any culling was to take place let the experts do it. However my vote would go to rolling out a vaccine, not a culling.

So perhaps it seems we are not disagreeing on the effect the badgers have on the cows but on the way to solve the problem.

....where exactly did I "Disneyfy" the badger?

[Polchraine]

It is not a wholesale cull, but in two specific areas and it will be used to see how effective a larger cull might be.

Will it be just farmers or will there be some form of licensing and additional species on an FAC?

Good job it was not the Labour Government bringing it in or they would have put it out to tender - how much will someone pay for a licence to take 100 badgers!

[Dougan]

Would you like me to keep you a few of the pelts?

Thank you scotsgun, that would be great...snipped



Moderator...Knock it OFF!

[Robin128]

Before anyone else starts getting abusive, this is a very interesting thread and I don't want it to go the same way as on other fora!

Let's discuss this logically... I think everyone has different points of view and the last thing we need is one of us grown ups calling foul and asking for the thread to be locked.

Be nice!

:)

[Dougan]

Before anyone else starts getting abusive, this is a very interesting thread and I don't want it to go the same way as on other fora!

Let's discuss this logically... I think everyone has different points of view and the last thing we need is one of us grown ups calling foul and asking for the thread to be locked.

Be nice!

:)

My apologies Robin - I am trying to discuss this in a 'grown up' way (see my previous comments), but when it is obvious that there are those who find the prospect of a badger cull (whether it be the right thing to do or not) upsetting...then it is totally insensitive to offer pelts.

[dromia]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[6.5shooter]

Me and my father are dairy farmers here in Northern Ireland and I would definatly support a cull over here in intensively farned areas as Tuberculosis is a real problem in this area.

We breed and milk 150 pedigree Holstein cows aswell as breed Aberdeen Angus beef cattle.
2 years ago we had a bad a bad TB outbreak and 7 of our cows had to be taken away to be culled. This was a big loss to our herd and one of those cows was used to flush embryos from to implant into other cows as she was an outstanding cow.
We did get compensated for these cows but nowhere near to the value that they were worth, how do you expalin to the asessor that youre cow is worth about a grand more than he is offering you and that it took 35 years of work and breeding to get the genetics in youre herd!!
This also led us to become a closed herd which means we cannot sell any animals which led us to become over stocked with calves as we normally sell all of the bull calves. Housing, enough land to graze the cattle and excess slurry are all knockon effects of this overstocking.
Being a closed herd for so long led us to having to shoot all of the bull calves at birth as we were left with no choice. This is a hard decision and something that I had to try and do as my Father could not gather the courage to shoot them.
So this is an inside view of the knock on effects of Tuberculosis that many people will never hear.

Regards

Garry

[Robin128]

There is no doubt in my mind that TB in any heard is devastating and costly.

It's what is effective at reducing the incidence of TB and to me farmers are on this problem all the time.

Badgers transmit TB and so does cattle movement between farms etc of ... some of which are probably infected.

TB may also get into other species, such as deer and sheep.

I continue to hold the view that the state should leave it up to farmers as to what they do about Badgers. However, it gets more complicated when there are neighbouring farms that do not have beef and milking heards and some are hobby farmers that want to allow excess breeding of badgers and will not heed the state requiring their numbers to be moderated.

I also believe that if it were left to non farmers/office workers, fox culling would also be banned.

The Badger cull has to be tried and there should be some enforcement, incase the cull is dirupted...I for one would not put ny name forward to carry out the cull, I just can't be asked to put up with people trying to disrupt such culls...things could get nasty...and I don't think the Police would be much use.

There again, I'll take a fox every chance I get, but ... again, what of the city folk who think I'm after their fluffy Badgers???

:roll: