The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Just figured out that although you cannot see it, the front sling swivel is also more than likely type 2.

I wonder when they will put up a statue to Vladimir Bulkin the man that had his gun design ripped off by Vasilii F. Lyutyi the true final designer of the AK47 to help out his protégé and utter fraud Kalashnikov?!

That the marginally talented but unoriginal copier of other more talented people's work gets mentioned in the same breath as true giants of gun design like Browning drives me nuts!

Nice statue but the man doesn't deserve the status he gets...

Fedaykin wrote:I wonder when they will put up a statue to Vladimir Bulkin the man that had his gun design ripped off by Vasilii F. Lyutyi the true final designer of the AK47 to help out his protégé and utter fraud Kalashnikov?!

That the marginally talented but unoriginal copier of other more talented people's work gets mentioned in the same breath as true giants of gun design like Browning drives me nuts!

Nice statue but the man doesn't deserve the status he gets...

What is your view on the debate about whether Russia or Germany came up with the concept of an intermediate calibre ? And which nation came up with the concept of the assault rifle.

Do you think the STG44 / Mp43 had any influence on the designer of the AK ?

My view is a number of nations came to similar conclusions about intermediate calibre rifles and it is wrong to say one nation is the defacto designer of the concept.

I think the STG44 influenced a number of rifles that were introduced to the trials and the Germans certainly helped the Russians perfect or at least try to adopt certain advanced production techniques. AK47 in its first production run had a stamped receiver. My gut feeling is the Russians were not ready for large scale production of a stamped receiver Ak.

Fedaykin wrote:I wonder when they will put up a statue to Vladimir Bulkin the man that had his gun design ripped off by Vasilii F. Lyutyi the true final designer of the AK47 to help out his protégé and utter fraud Kalashnikov?!

That the marginally talented but unoriginal copier of other more talented people's work gets mentioned in the same breath as true giants of gun design like Browning drives me nuts!

Nice statue but the man doesn't deserve the status he gets...

Exactly, but Kalashnikov filled a Party line! Hero, wounded, came up with a solution...

The AK was more an extension of Soviet foreign policy than a "weapon to defend the Motherland with"...

Now now chaps....play nice.

breacher wrote:

Fedaykin wrote:I wonder when they will put up a statue to Vladimir Bulkin the man that had his gun design ripped off by Vasilii F. Lyutyi the true final designer of the AK47 to help out his protégé and utter fraud Kalashnikov?!

That the marginally talented but unoriginal copier of other more talented people's work gets mentioned in the same breath as true giants of gun design like Browning drives me nuts!

Nice statue but the man doesn't deserve the status he gets...

What is your view on the debate about whether Russia or Germany came up with the concept of an intermediate calibre ? And which nation came up with the concept of the assault rifle.

Do you think the STG44 / Mp43 had any influence on the designer of the AK ?

No such thing.. liberal Americans invented the phrase to make semi automatic firearms sound more scary..

Nice statue, his family should be proud.

Fedaykin wrote:My view is a number of nations came to similar conclusions about intermediate calibre rifles and it is wrong to say one nation is the defacto designer of the concept.

Correct.

A lot of countries dabbled in the idea at various points in time from during WW1 onwards (Austria, France, UK, Italy, Switzerland as well as the Soviets and USA)
In fact, it was info supplied to the German DWM in the late 20's by the Swiss that started Germany down the intermediate cartridge route.
So, yes, while everyone dabbled in the theory on and off without taking it to full in-service use, it can't be argued against the fact that it was Germany that got there first in terms of use in service, with the 7.92x33 in the early years of WW2.
It was a German MKb 42 (H) in 7.92x33, which had been captured while undergoing troop trials as well as the M1 Carbine provided to the USSR by the USA that prompted the 15th July 1943 meeting of the Technical Council of the People’s Commissariat for Armament (NKV) to discuss these new foreign service calibres.

The Soviets certainley then took it to another level entirely though.

Hrun wrote:

breacher wrote:

Fedaykin wrote:I wonder when they will put up a statue to Vladimir Bulkin the man that had his gun design ripped off by Vasilii F. Lyutyi the true final designer of the AK47 to help out his protégé and utter fraud Kalashnikov?!

That the marginally talented but unoriginal copier of other more talented people's work gets mentioned in the same breath as true giants of gun design like Browning drives me nuts!

Nice statue but the man doesn't deserve the status he gets...

What is your view on the debate about whether Russia or Germany came up with the concept of an intermediate calibre ? And which nation came up with the concept of the assault rifle.

Do you think the STG44 / Mp43 had any influence on the designer of the AK ?

No such thing.. liberal Americans invented the phrase to make semi automatic firearms sound more scary..

Nice statue, his family should be proud.

While the media DO over use the term it was in fact coined by Adolf Hitler when he found out about the MP43 ruse ! Or so the story goes.

Sturm Gewehr - storm weapon.

Hrun wrote: No such thing.. liberal Americans invented the phrase to make semi automatic firearms sound more scary..

Nice statue, his family should be proud.

I have no interest in and was not making a comment on the ever ongoing American gun debate!

The AK47 is a rifle chambered in an intermediate cartridge making it an intermediate caliber rifle, it was a perfectly correct observation to make.

American Liberals did not invent the term Intermediate calibrate rifle albeit I have heard the term Assault weapon bandied around.

The AK47 is 1 a rifle 2 chambered in an intermediate round and 3 commonly but not universally known as an assault rifle!

Funny factoid early US army literature classified the AK47 as a sub machine gun...