Ken Clarke to clarify self defense law ???

[Chuck]

Barney -

Property is Property,,,and usually replaceable,,,

And just hoew sure are you that you will NOT be harmed in the process.

That statement is precisely WHY crime is on the increase, we are told yto hand it over, in other words, just accept it and let something YOU have worked for be stiolen by some benefit drawing dreg on society.

Funny that kids are told to stand up to bullies at school yet dults are told to hand it over. Barney that doers NOT always work, assuming some miscreant will take pity on you cos you are sh1tting yourself is not a good idea, the press is full of stories where people have meekly handed over, and been killed. You amongst many on here know that it is not about the possession of your property, it is about the degradation, humiliationand and above all fear in the eyes of the victim that these scum get off on.

Anyway, your argumrent fails a tad when Clark says that homeowners will be aloowed to stab bad guys, where's the difference, a shot does not necessarily kill whereas a knife wound may well do so despite the woooly thinking of Clark. Anyway, there is more chance of a knife being taken in a struggle than there would be in taking a gun from a TRAINED owner, one is close and personal the other is a stand off distance...or should be. Note that I advocate mandatory training for a firearm...and maybe in knife fighting as well???

[Robin128]

posted by chuck...it is about the degradation, humiliationand and above all fear in the eyes of the victim that these scum get off on

My take also!

:evil:

[the running man]

private ownership of a firearm being owned purely for self defence is different to as we do our chosen sport, for one ude have to keep it handy,wich would beg the question whys my .308 in a cabinet then?

for a good second reason,whos to say u never shot the guy in a pub,draged him home and claim he was breaking in?

if u hear someone downstairs breaking in or moving about,if said intruder is not put off by the noise of u going into the attic and unlocking ure cabinet coming back down getting the ammo out the ammo safe loading it,.............then brothers and sisters i put it to you that ure intruder is a serious nut! and u may have to use it!

i myself on a personal basis have always beleived in the right to arm oneself for self defence,with what ever firearm u see fit (proportionally). and the laws changed and officail training in proper discharging of it, but as the new order creeps ever closer and we are all forced to conform as sheep i fear things will only get worse for us,and better for the increasing pond life this country produces so well.

scrap all benifits,scrap the nhs,scrap free council house rents for the unemployed,,turf these scroungers out into the streets,once theve been hungry long enough perhaps they will get a job,and pay their way as we doo.

the welfate system has failed,failed becase we pay people not to work! no wonder people are floocking here!


the

[Chuck]

running man. Glad you agree with armed defence.

for a good second reason,whos to say u never shot the guy in a pub,draged him home and claim he was breaking in?

That of course is the daft argument put up by those who mean you harm, like anti gunners such as GCN, that will not happen, and anyway you could do the job with a knife or club with a nail in it if so minded.

if u hear someone downstairs breaking in or moving about,if said intruder is not put off by the noise of u going into the attic and unlocking ure cabinet coming back down getting the ammo out the ammo safe loading it,.............then brothers and sisters i put it to you that ure intruder is a serious nut! and u may have to use it!

By the time you do all that you could be dead...there is NOT enough time in many cases to do those things. There are issues of course with safe storage of defensive firearms but that process you outline is just a non starter. A defence firearm must be readily accessible otherwise it is useless. I would not advocate a .308 for home defence..unless it was all you had at the time :lol: There is a tried and proven training system for all this!

Bottom line is HOW do you know the intruder is NOT a drug fuelled homicidal nut, if they have the nerve to break into your home WHILE you are asleep then just maybe they have the nerve to do you in just for added fun..you NEVER know so why talke the chance...

Look at it this way, if they do not want shot and killed do not break into houses, what is it some people find so hard to understand with that simple concept.

Lastly, "area denia"l is also an option but it seems we are too squeamish in this country about making life difficult for scumbags in any way.

[ovenpaa]

Bottom line is HOW do you know the intruder is NOT a drug fuelled homicidal nut, if they have the nerve to break into your home WHILE you are asleep then just maybe they have the nerve to do you in just for added fun..you NEVER know so why talke the chance...

My pension man went down to the kitchen the other morning to find everything opened up, car keys gone and his shiny 6 Series missing off the driveway, the good news is it was found within 24 hours parked up on a local estate, obviously it had been left to see if it had a tracker in it.

The bad news is someone broke in, they did no real damage and just took the keys and went. I have no idea how his family feels right now, not good that is for sure. :(

Imagine what could have happened if they were after more than just the car keys.

[Sandgroper]

One for you, Chuck

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est"

(a sword never kills anybody, it is merely a tool in the killer's hand.)

Seneca the younger

[the running man]

chuck,uve missed the point m8,i put in too a satirical way maybe,the point of getting ure guns out of the cabinet defeats tge object if u choose to engage the intruder with a firearm,as said u need it close!

[pe4king]

Chuck

Lastly, "area denial" is also an option but it seems we are too squeamish in this country about making life difficult for scumbags in any way.

Now were talking my language mines and booby traps that should work a treat :lol:

[Chuck]

Sandgroper, exactly.

Runningman, no I didn't. Maybe my reply did not acknowledge it, I did see your point, my comment was not aimed at your comments, rather those who would have you lock away your personal defence weapon in such a manner.

p4king: A tad heavy on the redecorating after deployment compared to some blood splatter from a well placed pair. I am talking hyper lood alarms (posted on this before), "flash/bank effects, and automatic release of non toxic but highly irritating /nauseus odors that would force said perp to flee.

In effect turn your home into a fortress by making all bedrooms "instant panic rooms" when you turn in for the night and create a "hostile environment" in other parts of the house. For example, in my last house the bottom floor was always alarmed at night, allowing movement through the top without setting off alarm. If it were possible to make the alarms sound way above pain level downstairs that would (hopefully) distract / deter any intruder...failing which we arm the claymores and WP ejectors :lol:

[barney57]

Chuck whilst I dont disagree with what you say,,and your feelings on this,,,,I have to say that we must remember what is reasonable in the circumstances,,,and therefore the use of a Gun in many circumstances would not be reasonable,,and infact way over the top,,,and that in itself is the problem...

Remember you have to justify your actions,,,,and I will say it again as I have before and will continue to do,to everyone,,,,and that is this,,,,IT IS YOU AND YOU ALONE WHO WILL HAVE TO CONVINCE THOSE ON THE 9 O'CLOCK JURY (thats, those who were not there at the time and did not percieve the threat) THAT YOUR ACTIONS, WERE,,,REASONABLE, LAWFULL, JUSTIFIABLE and NECCESSARY IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES and that you were at that time IN FEAR for your LIFE and THOSE who it is your DUTY to PROTECT at that given time Either morally or Lawfully.

And for Gods sake make no mistake that there is, in all this, a very thin line when it comes to DEFENDING YOURSELF AND THOSE IT IS YOUR DUTY TO PROTECT.....and DEFENDING/PROTECTING PROPERTY,,,,,different ball game then I'm afraid....I kid you not...
Property is Property,,,and usually replaceable,,,Whilst Life is Life and not Replaceable... The decision of your actions is yours!!

But not if the law is changed...

With respect,,,,,I dont think the law in relation to the differences in the defence of PROPERTY to that of LIFE will never change..