Just read this......

[bradaz11]

Thanks Sim, so all these airsoft toys are now illegal then??

IMO if they were legal to buy at the time then they should stay that way, NO ONE should become a criminal through fecked up and / or retrospective legislation.

airsoft guns don't have rifled barrels and so don't come into it, like a lot of air guns. I presume these steyr's are rifled?

the upper limits or air power for airsoft is also only advisory atm (or certainly was still last year), there is still no max power that it suddenly becomes a firearm at, although most sites where you use them do have set limits to stop you hurting each other.

[Sim G]

the upper limits or air power for airsoft is also only advisory atm (or certainly was still last year), there is still no max power that it suddenly becomes a firearm at, although most sites where you use them do have set limits to stop you hurting each other.

There is a Home Office instruction that has stipulated the maximum power of airsoft before they become airguns. ACPO and the Forensic Science Service conducted the tests back in 2010/2011 in the "lethathility" of airsoft and hence the limit. Likewise, if there was no upper limit, hypothetically you could have and airsoft gun that shoots BBs at 700 rpm at an energy of 300ft/lbs and not fall into the regulations?

Rifled and smooth bore is also irrelevant. They are dealt with separately when "powder burning" but in air weapons, exactly the same.

[Sim G]

Well they certainly couldn't be bothered to come out into their own car park to view my vandalized Porsche - even though I'd carefully preserved the idiot's full palm and fingerprints by taping a sheet of polythene over them in the foolish thought they might actually bother to take lifts. Back in the day as a fingerprint officer I'd have loved to have it so easy.

These days, of course, they avoid the tiresome public by insisting they sit on hold after ringing the 101 non-emergency number until they get bored and hang up. I tried to report a theft from my Land Rover today at our local police station and despite the three coppers having nothing else to do but chat among themselves they still pointed to a little room off the front desk where I could ring 101.
Absolutely useless! At least before they were just pretty useless and would hand over a Crime Number for your insurance.

Complain. That's your right. There is the forces own mechanism, the IPCC and your local PCC! Two coppers were sacked in Kent recently for not recording crime properly, following relevant lines of enquiry and not providing a proper service.

Of course, I'm presuming that the events were as you describe....

[bradaz11]

the upper limits or air power for airsoft is also only advisory atm (or certainly was still last year), there is still no max power that it suddenly becomes a firearm at, although most sites where you use them do have set limits to stop you hurting each other.

There is a Home Office instruction that has stipulated the maximum power of airsoft before they become airguns. ACPO and the Forensic Science Service conducted the tests back in 2010/2011 in the "lethathility" of airsoft and hence the limit. Likewise, if there was no upper limit, hypothetically you could have and airsoft gun that shoots BBs at 700 rpm at an energy of 300ft/lbs and not fall into the regulations?

Rifled and smooth bore is also irrelevant. They are dealt with separately when "powder burning" but in air weapons, exactly the same.

in Ovenpaa's post, 5th post down from start, it even mentions rifled on that....

as to the low powered stuff, i thought all that was advisory? and the only level that mattered was the same upper level of airguns into firearms?

[Sim G]

as to the low powered stuff, i thought all that was advisory? and the only level that mattered was the same upper level of airguns into firearms?

If that was the case the conversation we're having about a semi auto air pistol would be moot...

And could you imagine all of those skirmishers shooting each other in the face with a 11.5ft/lb M4 on full auto! Now that really would leave a mark in the morning!

[Dark Skies]

Well they certainly couldn't be bothered to come out into their own car park to view my vandalized Porsche - even though I'd carefully preserved the idiot's full palm and fingerprints by taping a sheet of polythene over them in the foolish thought they might actually bother to take lifts. Back in the day as a fingerprint officer I'd have loved to have it so easy.

These days, of course, they avoid the tiresome public by insisting they sit on hold after ringing the 101 non-emergency number until they get bored and hang up. I tried to report a theft from my Land Rover today at our local police station and despite the three coppers having nothing else to do but chat among themselves they still pointed to a little room off the front desk where I could ring 101.
Absolutely useless! At least before they were just pretty useless and would hand over a Crime Number for your insurance.

Complain. That's your right. There is the forces own mechanism, the IPCC and your local PCC! Two coppers were sacked in Kent recently for not recording crime properly, following relevant lines of enquiry and not providing a proper service.

Of course, I'm presuming that the events were as you describe....

I left off their flippant attitude for the sake of brevity.

I DID complain regarding the vandalism incident - it went nowhere with a lame apology coupled with a feeble excuse. This was some time back and so I cannot dig out the letter - I recall it was no more than a paragraph beyond the usual blah blah apology but not apology style.

The break in happened earlier this week and EVERYONE and their granny has complained about the 101 non emergency number and nothing has been done. Even senior officers admit it's crap. I think it was an inspector from Cambridgeshire that said something along the lines of 'don't bother wasting your time - life's too short.'
I knew it was a means to avoid plonkers making inappropriate 999 calls or tying up local stations' phones but I was actually shocked to discover that you can no longer walk into a police station and report a crime. I didn't actually expect much by way of action but I had hoped that if I provided the radio's make, model, and serial number that if the scrote was by some miracle pinched for something that spinning his drum might result in the return of my property.

[bradaz11]

as to the low powered stuff, i thought all that was advisory? and the only level that mattered was the same upper level of airguns into firearms?

If that was the case the conversation we're having about a semi auto air pistol would be moot...

And could you imagine all of those skirmishers shooting each other in the face with a 11.5ft/lb M4 on full auto! Now that really would leave a mark in the morning!

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 16_v20.pdf

Based on that work, we think it is safe to conclude that fully automatic airsoft guns
operating at 1.3 joules or less and single shot (or semi automatic) airsoft guns operating
at 2.5 joules or less would not engage the lethality threshold crossing over into stricter
controls under the Firearms Act. This would mean that airsoft firearms that are also realistic
imitation firearms operating at or below these thresholds would, nonetheless, not be
required to be sold by a Registered Firearms Dealer but that the other control provisions
provided by the Violent Crime Reduction Act would apply. Please note that this has not yet
been tested by the courts

this is what i was reffering to, AFAIK it has never been made law, but was a recommendation in the guidance. quite happy to be wrong on this, just have never seen it stated as actual law.

with the rifled barrel thing, that's why i thought it was moot with airsoft guns and smooth airguns as the legislation states self loading rifled guns....
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27
5(1)(ab)

[Fedaykin]

Madness, sheer madness.

Retropsective legislation eh. One would think there are more important issues than expensive air pistols in a limited market to contend with!

No, it's not retrospective, it's how the law works in the U.K. Parliament enacts "broad brush" legislation and the courts try, test and make proclamations on it. Some law never gets tested and becomes regarded as a given, some is questioned continually.

The fact is, semi automatic air pistols and rifles, except specifically chambered in .22 rimfire in regards to rifles, are s5. They have been since 1997. Whether they "need" to be is the question that needs to be answered. And that is generally fine quicker, easier and more economical if put before a court.

Should a case arise, it should at least clarify for those who do own semi auto air weapons, for at the minute they are looking at a five year prison sentence by definition....

Of course we now touch upon the utter confusing and contradictory mess made by people who have no clue about guns that is UK firearms regulation. Lets take a photo tour shall we to see how far down the Rabbit hole we can go :

Exhibit A: Glock 17 Airsoft Pistol, to own one you need to be a rein-actor or member of a UKARA registered airsoft site and have regular recorded participation in those in those activities.


Exhibit B: Glock 17 Airsoft Pistol Two tone, exactly the same performance as exhibit A but can be purchased and owned by anybody over the age of 18.


Exhibit C: Can of matt black spray paint, purchasable in any motor-factor for £4.99 and can be combined with exhibit B but you will be breaking the law...draw your own conclusion!


Exhibit D: Walther CP99 Air Pistol, couldn't find a Glock 17 Air Pistol went for an equivalent. Can be purchased by anybody over the age of 18 in the Highstreet more powerful than exhibit A and B. Whilst having the operation and behaving like a Semi-Auto it is not section 5 due to the magazine being mechanically actuated like a revolver.


Exhibit E: Walther P99 Pistol Semi Automatic, Section 5.


Exhibit F: Walther P99 Deac, can be owned be purchased by anybody over the age of 18.


Exhibit G: Walther P99 Blank firing replica, UKARA membership and participation in a reenactment group required to own.


Exhibit H: Steyr LP50 semi automatic target air pistol, Section 5 due to gas from C02 cartridge being used to cycle action rather than being mechanically actuated. Performance similar to Exhibit D sub 6ft lb. Home Office advice that they had overlooked this type of pistol in the 1997 legislation and really it shouldn't be Section 5 so up to the local Chief Constable to decide what to do. Home office feels further legislation is needed some when to tidy up the situation.


Exhibit I: back to Glock! Glock 17 Gen 1 9mm semi automatic pistol. Section 7.3, yes these is at least one person in the UK who owns one of these and shoots it at a Historic registered club and range.



Now I could add Humane Dispatch, Historic and Black Powder, make mention of Northern Ireland and The Isle of Mann but you should get my point!