mosin nagant bayonets illegal?

[mackie]

I wonder what has prompted this? When was the last time someone was bayoneted or threatened with one in civilian life?

[IainWR]

I wonder what has prompted this? When was the last time someone was bayoneted or threatened with one in civilian life?

Have you read this thread from the start?

[mackie]

By "this" I mean reports of wider enquiries not just related to the OP. Or has it been established that the OP's RFD was the genesis of all of this? Maybe I should just re-read the whole thread :P!

[IainWR]

By "this" I mean reports of wider enquiries not just related to the OP. Or has it been established that the OP's RFD was the genesis of all of this? Maybe I should just re-read the whole thread :P!

It hasn't been established explicitly as far as I know, but the timing of the original event followed by an increasing number of reports of Scottish police questions firstly about Nagants and subsequently more generally about historic rifles with bayonets leads one to suspect that the issue went into Police Scotland at Glasgow and has been fed from there round the country. If anyone has asked an FEO making these sort of inquiries where the concern started from and has had a sensible answer, I would love to know.

There is a classic problem underlying this. Clarification of law is done by taking the matter to court and establishing precedent. Therefore, to clarify any point in the criminal law relies on someone being at risk of prosecution. In the case of laws that do something useful, this is a non-problem - enough lawbreaking goes on to get the clarification done at the expense of the genuinely guilty. In the case of firearms legislation, or as here with something that really only affects FAC holders, the mechanism doesn't work because FAC holders will do almost anything to avoid the risk of being prosecuted.

I would like to be charitable and say that this is simply Police Scotland enforcing the Scottish legislation on bladed instruments and offensive weapons now that a particular area of possible concern has come to their attention. But one cannot help thinking that someone has spotted another way to make FAC holders' lives more difficult.

[dromia]

Iain are any of the National bodies speaking to Police Scotland about this issue and how were shooters needs represented during the creation of this law in Scotland?

[IainWR]

I suspect that shooters were not represented at all in its creation - why should they be? Various other sports had to have their resulting issues sorted by Ministerial order. I will guess it was a piece of vote-grubbing by the Scottish Labour Party ahead of the 2007 election, which Salmond & co haven't the electoral courage to amend to a sensible form or repeal.

I suspect that the NRA will have to lead on this, which means me. I have known about it since about 2 days before this thread started, since when I have read all the relevant laws and continue to dip into them to improve understanding, I have taken advice from an extremely senior Scottish QC and I have advised at least 3 individuals and at least 2 clubs of what I think the position is. If I get to the point where there is a suitable opening to have a useful conversation with Police Scotland I will do so, but I don't think ringing them up on spec is going to get anywhere.

[dromia]

Thank you Iain, good to know that some organisation is taking this up on behalf of shooters.

It has potentially dangerous implications as it seem to me to be in effect a ban on using certain types of firearms.

Surely there should be some mechanism for "National" bodies to engage formally with police authorities? BSSC, ACPO, whatever. It seems to me that we are coming to these tables as a weak supplicant. When the English legislation was put in place was the firearms caveat just included as a matter of course or were the shooting bodies involved there?

[saddler]

Going to make a call to a few folk when I get home.

SACS are first on the list....then Fettes....

Will post updates.

[IainWR]

Surely there should be some mechanism for "National" bodies to engage formally with police authorities?

We do, usually through BSSC, but sometimes en masse, get to talk to ACPO and the Home Office. The trouble with this issue is that it comes about not through firearms legislation which remains a national issue (except airguns) but though offensive weapons legislation which is a devolved issue. While that's not insurmountable it is an additional complication.

[25Pdr]

Here's one Bayonet that is definitely illegal in the UK.....



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