.308 Best Way Forward?

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Maggot

Re: .308 Best Way Forward?

#31 Post by Maggot »

the running man wrote:I dont care what anyone says,f class is check book shooting,the best shot in the world with a remmy 700 would get beat by my 8 year old and an rpa...

You want a consistently good score,u needs a good gun. Take the chaps from desert tactical? was it? letting folk shoot the mqueens with box standard factory ammo,vertually everyone shooting it smacked em all through the x and the scoring was vertually all the same...

Check book shooting!!!
Bit insulting to F class shots as it goes but it takes all sorts I guess.

We regularly have people turn up with such rifles who go away and think again, F/TR is limited don't forget (but then you knew that...didn't you?).

So buying a top of the range AI or whatever (often more expensive than some of the winning F/TR rigs out there) would not require the use of a cheque book or significant outlay then wtfwtf

You have just made my point for me, buy the best you can afford with your discipline in mind...its not that difficult is it.

I really must be missing something though.

So what you are saying is, all I need to do is spend as much money as possible and I can beat Russell Simmonds, Tim Stewart, Andy March, Gary Costello....wake up!!

As regards the cheque book, if only. It has taken me several years to get to the very bottom of my sport. Lots of sacrifice, and to be honest the only way is up.

Cheque book... kukkuk

If Cheque books bought talent then I would go on the game (might just be able to afford a new set of brass if I pay them!!).

I really resent the suggestion that any talent within the F class is purely money based **** ...some of us have to sell kidneys...I personally am missing both testicles, a leg, 1 kidney, one ear, most of my hair, my nose and some marbles :55:

Still good to see that as a sport, we stick together though, seriously, that's really good to know :shakeshout:
Maggot

Re: .308 Best Way Forward?

#32 Post by Maggot »

kennyc wrote:
Maggot wrote:Personally....FWIW

How well a rifle is shooting is relative to the expectation/ability of the shooter.

I know a chap who shoots F/TR with a remmy. He talks the hind legs off a donkey, knows everything there is to know (and quite a lot you dont need to know) about .308...

I still reckon a novice could kick his ass with something like a Dolphin or a Savage. A well set up, good shooting rifle takes a lot of the doubt out of it.

Actually I gave my Dolphin to my son in law, gave him 10 with a snap cap and he bunged every single round into the V at 300, first attempt with anything larger than a .223. OK, it was a TR target but that still would have been a possible on a F class target...there was very little wind I grant you, but, when they design a rifle that negates the wind then it's time to pack it in.

A few weeks back another clubs members were lauding the group I was witnessing (I was in the butts with them) appear before my eyes.

It was a nasty 2.5" vertical spread (we were at 200). From a Barnard action with a 30" barrel....I was horrified and put em right. Sadly the owner died a few weeks later :run:

I own a Dolphin Modular. Its not prefect, but it's damned near (more down to personal taste and Miks poor attempts at mind reading :run: ), and had I listened I would not have had the mag feed version as I have never used it.

My advice would be to do the following.

1. Decide EXACTLY what you want from it.

Are you going to hanker after F/TR comp shooting, some tactical (?) or just shoot against yourself out to 1000 against TR targets....or not shoot past 600?

Look at what the majority of successful shooters are using in that discipline (its nice to be unique, but not if the thing is crap, obsolete, only repairable by a little man in Zanziba, or likely to blow yer bloody head off).

Warning, do not listen to the advice of anyone that does not ACTUALLY shoot that discipline and shoot it well.

(I recently heard of a lad who was told, by his none F/TR shooting cronies (They dont usually shoot past 50yds) that a short 24" barrel would be better as there would be less friction and the bullet would fly faster...if only he had asked us first **** )

Where possible try out.

2. Having done the above, then work out what the best piece of glass is going to be to do the job (within your range).

Warning, do not listen to the advice of anyone that does not ACTUALLY shoot that discipline and shoot it well.

Determine what the minimum is you can use to do the job, but buy the best you can afford.

Dont buy anything that you have not personally looked through (for several minutes) in the conditions and at the range you intend shooting in/at.

Optics are subjective. By that I mean that what may be the nirvana to one, could be frosted glass to another (but still be percieved as the dogs by all). Any optic just aids whatever condition your eyes are in, soem suit more than others, since you will spend a lot fo time looking through it, make sure its as good as it can be (chances are it will move on with you to yoru next rifle, good glass tends too).

I dont personally like the SSG much, the mags are horrid, but they shoot ok.

Above all, remember that whatever you buy you are likely to lose something on it if you dont like the thing and want to move on, so take your time, you have to live with the thing.

I would always suggest going for a stock that has as much adjustment as possible, and a rig that is capable of coping with and shrugging off the rain...The Dolphin is well named in this respect.

A nice walnut number looks nice, but will it cope when soaked in water...

Now I aint Donald Trump. We both work, we dont go abroad (hate it and have 3 dogs) we dont smoke and seldom drink, so I can afford, for now, to enjoy some competitive shooting.

I would suggest possibly looking at a small loan.

I was going to save for my Dolphin, but there ar emany small loan companies out there with very good rates.

My wife pointed out that it would take a long time to save up, during which the prices would also go up, so I took a small loan to cover the rifle and sold other bits to cover the scope (Sightron 8-32 LRTD).

This may seem like an extreme lesson in impatience but think about it.

By the time you have bought a couple of dogs, spent the saving on this or that, you may well have been able to afford the more expensive option anyway.

Not everybodies approach I know, but its a thought. Remember its an expensive punt and you have to live with it.

I dont buy this "I dont need a Ferrari, I am not worthy etc" approach. The rifle is a launcher. It does not matter what you do in terms of sights or loading if the thing is a dog, but a good rifle can often be made to sing with a good load and some talent (that's me buggered then).

Currently, if I was in the market for a new GP rifle I would have either one of Daves Ovenpaa's M66 actions or an AI, but that's me ;)

Take care, and whatever you decied, enjoy it, life's too short not to tongueout
lot of sense talked there, someone must have hacked Chris's account :good:
You would be amazed the effect that C2R and orange juice has on a ma....I hesitate to use the word man, it implies human Ken...but it's the best mixer I know of mate :cheers:
Maggot

Re: .308 Best Way Forward?

#33 Post by Maggot »

Zilberbak wrote:I must be honest I have no real aspirations in winning comps, although I would like to participate for the fun of it.
Me neither to start with. I am a total biff, the last time I hit 2 balls together was when I trod on a garden rake zzzzom .

My wife and kids used to take me to play pitch and purely for entertainment (Theirs **** ). They stopped it when the place used to empty when we showed up.

I shot competitive fullbore as a cadet and as a squaddie, then I went on to teach others how to "Blatt away until they hit something" then the Army beat the shooting out of me.

But apart from orienteering it was the only thing I ever won anything doing.

I started again with 2 goals, Own a No4 (Check) shoot at 1000yds (only because I had read about Carlos Hathcock and the Wimbledon cup...I just wanted to see how hard it was....the way he did it, hard!!)..Check, but as my club is an F class club and I turned out to be moderately competitive I started down that route.

F open is fascinating, but it's not my thing. Not interested in CSR (been there done that and they shoot back...would you believe it?? Hooligans) and I always wanted to shoot a nice bolt action, so now I do (Ta Micky young fellah me lad :goodjob: ).

The other problem is unless you focus, you end up with half a dozen rifles, none of which you ever truly master, so if I had to give one piece of advice it would be take your time if you can.

You can only shoot against yourself for so long...at least that has been my experience.

I just hate to see folk bullshitted to or ripped off.
Maggot

Re: .308 Best Way Forward?

#34 Post by Maggot »

meles meles wrote:We respectfully suggest that the muzzle is best kept pointing forward...
Always a winner oh stripy one :grin:
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Zilberbak
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Re: .308 Best Way Forward?

#35 Post by Zilberbak »

l was expecting a real mauling for sticking to the Remy/AI (although the deal has not been done yet) so very pleased with the positive reactions.

Problem l have is that most of my shooting buddies are in to Gallery and .22 target so l am jumping in to it a bit blind (somewhat less now with all the feedback l have had). l am looking to initially shoot at Severnside and would welcome the chance to meet up with any other Full Borers if the opportunity arises.

Dare l mention scopes say around the £500 mark!
Zilberbak

Vested interest in .22LR .357 9mm .223 .308 7.62x39 & 7.62x54R
Maggot

Re: .308 Best Way Forward?

#36 Post by Maggot »

Zilberbak wrote:l was expecting a real mauling for sticking to the Remy/AI (although the deal has not been done yet) so very pleased with the positive reactions.

Problem l have is that most of my shooting buddies are in to Gallery and .22 target so l am jumping in to it a bit blind (somewhat less now with all the feedback l have had). l am looking to initially shoot at Severnside and would welcome the chance to meet up with any other Full Borers if the opportunity arises.

Dare l mention scopes say around the £500 mark!
Here's a thought Z

Our TFU had it suggested that they might hand in their AIs for Remmy 700s by TVP.

They were not very polite, and still have their AIs.

Glass.

Total minefield but there is something out there for everyone.

I would look at Sightron and work up, but others with other tastes may know of good deals and other experiences.

But, don't discount second hand. Some shooters can be a bit like camera buffs, if it aint the latest then it cannot be good enough...which we all know damned well is often flawed logic, particularly as companies try to cut costs.

This is great as it means that every so often something really tasty turns up, the trick as always is to have the ruddy funds!!

On bit of advice, if you buy a scope second hand with a good name, check out the warranty etc.

Many are lifetime and transferable. I got my Sightron from Aim with a significant discount as it had been returned ( the guy did not like 1/8 MOA clicks) with a tiny mark, so could not be sold new.

It has been back for a service since (I was suspicious about a moving POI) and is working fine.

Keep an eye on the various companies for end of line etc, but see if you can try a like model first because glass is subjective (and this time "I" don't give a toss what anyone says...It does not follow that the scope with the DBs review will sparkle for everyone, its subjective).

Do look for a good mechanical setup though that will return round the box to zero every time and ideally does not do its own thing when you put a few clicks on fingerscrossed

Like I said, good glass stays with you.

Try and get to one of the F/TR meets at Bisley, there are usually a good smattering of decent scopes and many shooting with middle range ones that perform well.
Dangermouse

Re: .308 Best Way Forward?

#37 Post by Dangermouse »

My 2 pence worth:

Any 26" barrelled .308 will see you out to 800 yards and as long as everything else is equal you will hold your own with most Jo's on the range.
I am surprised to see that no one has mentioned the Tikka or Howa Varmint rifles. Also good rifles which are now seeing more spares available with a lovely line of laminate and tactical stocks coming on the market - as well as 10 round mag conversions.
The varmint designation will mean that this is the heavy barrelled version, not as heavy as a custom barrel but better than the light weight barrels preferred by hunters.

A 26" barrel will get you on target at 1000 yards but as the bullet will by then be going trans sonic, your accuracy will not be as good as those with the 30" barrels who can keep their rounds super sonic at that range. On a club day, again you will have fun and if you are at the top of your game, be competitive.

To be truly competitive, and you will still need to be on top of your game, you will need a 30"- 32" barrel and have everything go your way.

You decide, how often will you shoot at 1000 yards? Once a year will not make it worth your while.

No one has mentioned triggers. You will want an after market unit or at the very least one that has been seriously fettled, to get the results you are after. There are a lot more on the market and easily sourced for the Remington than most other makes.

I started with a SPS and it has become a "Triggers broom". for me I had no option, my wife set a limit of £600 and thats what I spent on the rifle ;)
The SPS stock is truly terrible and is best thrown in the bin / put on ebay.
The AI stock needs no introduction but it does not fit everyones hands. In my opinion the best ready to go stock on the market today is the Dolphin - which comes ready to use AICS mags, which not all do.

I don't believe anyone has mentioned weight either? F/TR and to a lesser extent F Open has weight restrictions. I understand that the AICS stock is comparatively heavy.
I would be surprised if the SSG 04 with glass will come in under weight.

DM
EagerNoSkill

Re: .308 Best Way Forward?

#38 Post by EagerNoSkill »

"I dont care what anyone says,f class is check book shooting,the best shot in the world with a remmy 700 would get beat by my 8 year old and an rpa...
You want a consistently good score,u needs a good gun. Take the chaps from desert tactical? was it? letting folk shoot the mqueens with box standard factory ammo, virtually everyone shooting it smacked em all through the x and the scoring was vertually all the same...
Check book shooting!!!"


Hi Runningman ......
I am "Anyone" and tell you what ..... Talk is cheap actions speak louder than words.
I am tired of internet cowboys professing excretus when they can NOT produce the goods!
DONT compare 200 / 300 yard McQueens to 1000 yard F-class.
Different sport .. different rules... similar cross over skills but additional dimensions of complexity!

The challenge - you tell me when and where - I will source a STANDARD 26 Inch Remmi - I will work up a load
I will shot it with a 16 power scope and a Harris Bipod!
Go ahead Bring your 8 year old and your RPA.................

Then we do a 2 + 20 in a Stickledown wind that is going from 14 moa left to 4 moa right over the space of 3 shots...
And when we have finished what will have been accomplished!?!?!
Your 8 year old kid's spirit and motivation will have been destroyed and your delusional BS would have been stuffed where the sun don't shine!
and then maybe just maybe ... you will acknowledge that as good as the equipment is ... you still need the operator up to the task!
For the record speak to those that know me here ..... ask them who they will place their betting money on!
And should your 8 year beat me - I would be the first one to congratulate him on his SKILL!

To hit 0.5 moa target at 1000 yards consistently needs....
1. Good gun - which a properly built Remmi 700 is!
2. Additional equipment - matt / bipod etc
3. Decent optics
4. Ammunition up to tasks
5. Wind Reading
6. Matt protocols - plot sheets
7. Mental mindset
Guess what uses / produces all of the above the PRIMATE behind stock!

So lets settle this once and for all .... come on.... I am back in from US in September ... you have September and October to proof me wrong...
AND if you don't want to take up this challenge ....."Shut the F up" ... your proving your ignorance every time you touch the keyboard
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Re: .308 Best Way Forward?

#39 Post by phaedra1106 »

Dangermouse wrote:I would be surprised if the SSG 04 with glass will come in under weight.DM
Don't know what the weight limit is but my SSG-04 with a Sightron SIII 8-32x56 and a Sinclair Tactical Bipod (new version) comes in at 6.2Kg if that's any help :good:
There's room for all Gods creatures, next to the mash and gravy :)
Maggot

Re: .308 Best Way Forward?

#40 Post by Maggot »

EagerNoSkill wrote:"I dont care what anyone says,f class is check book shooting,the best shot in the world with a remmy 700 would get beat by my 8 year old and an rpa...
You want a consistently good score,u needs a good gun. Take the chaps from desert tactical? was it? letting folk shoot the mqueens with box standard factory ammo, virtually everyone shooting it smacked em all through the x and the scoring was vertually all the same...
Check book shooting!!!"


Hi Runningman ......
I am "Anyone" and tell you what ..... Talk is cheap actions speak louder than words.
I am tired of internet cowboys professing excretus when they can NOT produce the goods!
DONT compare 200 / 300 yard McQueens to 1000 yard F-class.
Different sport .. different rules... similar cross over skills but additional dimensions of complexity!

The challenge - you tell me when and where - I will source a STANDARD 26 Inch Remmi - I will work up a load
I will shot it with a 16 power scope and a Harris Bipod!
Go ahead Bring your 8 year old and your RPA.................

Then we do a 2 + 20 in a Stickledown wind that is going from 14 moa left to 4 moa right over the space of 3 shots...
And when we have finished what will have been accomplished!?!?!
Your 8 year old kid's spirit and motivation will have been destroyed and your delusional BS would have been stuffed where the sun don't shine!
and then maybe just maybe ... you will acknowledge that as good as the equipment is ... you still need the operator up to the task!
For the record speak to those that know me here ..... ask them who they will place their betting money on!
And should your 8 year beat me - I would be the first one to congratulate him on his SKILL!

To hit 0.5 moa target at 1000 yards consistently needs....
1. Good gun - which a properly built Remmi 700 is!
2. Additional equipment - matt / bipod etc
3. Decent optics
4. Ammunition up to tasks
5. Wind Reading
6. Matt protocols - plot sheets
7. Mental mindset
Guess what uses / produces all of the above the PRIMATE behind stock!

So lets settle this once and for all .... come on.... I am back in from US in September ... you have September and October to proof me wrong...
AND if you don't want to take up this challenge ....."Shut the F up" ... your proving your ignorance every time you touch the keyboard
Kin ouch!!! :lol:

Very fair though T tesnews

That primate comment was not aimed at me was it?....right turn Clyde :55:
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